Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A

3 hours ago, RetroAdvisoryBoard said:

 

I'd thought about this too - slicing the mapped inputs into four quadrants.  The thing I'll stress is that unlike a traditional d-pad, where you have a subtle tactile indication that you've switched from left to up position (in the feel of the crosspad) - the disc is absent that tactile feedback.  So if you were in left position and just pressed up slightly, you could still be in left position (one of those 16 sectors dedicated to "left").. and not get the response you thought.  Or your thumb may be slightly off center and you think you're in true left, but you're closer to that up quadrant than you intended, and a slight shift in pressure gives an "up" input.  How would you resolve that?  

 

Well, the shape of the disc being a basin helps tremendously, but players still need a little time with the disc to get accustomed to it if they're regularly lifting that thumb and re-placing it.  But also, the games could take advantage of some of those inputs and pressure sensitivity to gauge intent.  Intellivision would have to heavily playtest their assumptions:  When do you register a slight shift and when don't you?  If pressure is on 25 inputs on that radial and it's fairly evenly distributed for a game with only four real directional results, is that a move upward or is that still directional left (with a few up inputs pressed)?  What if most of the inputs are on left quadrant, but the weight/pressure is skewing to those couple up inputs pressed?  What if the pressure is closer to 50/50?  That's all stuff they've had to test and figure on that controller and the pressure sensitivity and I'm excited to play it - it should give the controller a very pseudo analog feel I hope (that's what the early feedback sounds like).  

 

So in Cranker's suggestion, you'd just split those into four quadrants, but maybe that gives some un-intentional responses?  So I could see them also trial a layout where.. maybe 8 or 10 or 12 inputs nearest those cardinal up/down/left/right directions are in play, and the 16 or 8 left unmapped (basically in the No Man's Land [NE, SE, SW, NW] positions) are "dead" zones that won't register feedback.  That may make a miserable play experience, or it may encourage the player to more deliberate presses.. maybe continuing left and not accidentally going up in a maze game is better, or maybe stopped movement is better?  Not sure not having tested any of that, but it's one of the ways the controller is definitely equipped to be a different beast.  And yield unique results for different games - it could be optimized or dialed back to the needs of the game.  Can't do that with a d-pad.  Can't do that with a thumbstick.  And you hear Cyrus and Grudge talking about it, how it needs a minute or two to orient what's going on with the disc's layers of responsiveness to mentally click.  That's friggin fascinating.  I can't shout from enough rooftops how cool that is.  Someone is trying something different.  That's innovation.  I could give two flying, uh, biplanes.. how much a dismissive faction laments that Intellivision is marching ahead with this silly controller (we all know the original Intellivision controller was a Soviet torture program leaked and procured by Mattel to be unleashed upon the masses).  When the modern controller is perfect, the gaming gods' gift to mankind - "We've done it - we've created controller nirvana in the much repeated crosspad/ABXY/left stick/right stick/left & right top shoulder/left & right back trigger/start/select layout, it's ambrosia in your hands.  Lap it up.  Now go etch it on the sacred Holies and throw stones at anyone who looks back or forward or elsewhere for design considerations.  Big stones."

 

All right maybe I get a little exaggerative there.  Maybe.

I’m not an expert, but it stands to reason that the hardware and electrical inputs are fixed by the system. As such, it will be up to the game designers on how that input system is interpreted.  I’d guess that in a 4 way input game (i.e., up, down, left, right) the game developers would use the center point input. As an example your input would switch from down to left once the center point input crossed the zone threshold.  It has been a while, but I remember Tommy at one point confirming that the “controllers” could be zoned for different configurations based on the particular game. 
 

16 vs 64 input positions can result in the ability for much smoother control over the original Intellivision.  Take skiing for example; with 16 directions there are only 7 downhill directions (and the associated skier graphics) available which led to somewhat choppy control. With 64 positions the system can accommodate 31 downhill facing directions (and associated skier graphics) if the developers utilize the system to its fullest capabilities.

One thing that I really hope makes it into the developers control scheme is that the 4 direction maze type games (i.e., Burgertime, Pacman, etc.) allow for pre selecting your upcoming desired turn at the next intersection. Burgertime on Evercade for example will only let you input a turn when you are directly on the intersection, but it would be made much better (IMO) if Petter would turn at the next intersection if the controller was being commanded at a location between the current direction and the one you want to change to.  In this situation, there would need to be 4 zones of pure direction with 4 additional zones of upcoming direction-change between those zones. With 1/8 zoning of the controller (assuming same-size zones; it doesn't need to be) control should be precise enough to allow this assuming the disc is adequately sized. 

1 hour ago, woobman said:

To all the lucky people that got to lay their hands on a controllers. See the console. Plus the bonus hanging out with Tommy. Congrats! It sounds like it was both fun, and informative. 

 

I do have a semi difficult question for all of you: From what you have seen. And given there will be more optimizations of the games. Do you see any potential issues with the console? limited CPU/GPU Power? Memory? Playing certain games on the controller? The size of the controller?  I don't think durability will be an issue unless you put it in a campfire, or run it over with a mower.  Bear attack? Not trying to add fuel to any negativity fire. I think EVERY system ever has had something about it. Just wonderin' 

 

PS - Every few months I mention Tron or ET in a post.. So I'm sending out vibes that these are still in the potential bucket.  Hoping for a Wouldn't that be something^tm post soon

PPS - I know Tempest is in early works as well. Would love to see at least a screenshot.

PPSSPP - Adventure too.

 

I'll stop there.

 

I don't really see any problems with the games that Intellivision has said they are making for the Amico. Obviously no analog sticks so any 3D motion, free camera games won't work, but they aren't making any of those. The disc isn't analog (but it is kinda 'semi' with the pressure sensitivity) and you have to press to control it so it isn't the perfect interface anything that required fine pointing - but they are using the touch screen for that. The disc will be way above average for driving games and 2d top down pointing (like shooting arrows in a dungeon). Obviously is it no substitute for an analog stick however. Like was mentioned above you can only 'gate' it via software but no current console offers gated joysticks anyway. You can kind of say a D pad is like that but you are losing the pressure sensitivity and only get 4 possible inputs (so 8 if it registers two directions at once), so this is very much a lesser input option but you could argue a DPad is more 'sure'. However analog joysticks are way less 'sure' in their directional inputs than 4 or 8 way digital ones so I am not sure if that isn't a tradeoff people are willing to make.

I am sure the Amico processor can't handle certain special effects but I saw plenty of cool effects in the games we played (zooms, particles, multi layered '3d' graphics, etc.). There is a TON of stuff going on in parts of Missile Command & Astrosmash, with a major percentage of the screen moving, so animated moving bits on the screen (the basis of most 2d/pseudo 3d games) is no major issue. There certainly are technical limitation of the hardware (memory, CPU and storage), but not so sure those will significantly impact 2d type games. Maybe you have to design around a few things & optimize but I don't think there are any 2d or pseudo 3d genres you couldn't do. No way it can handle regular VR I am guessing, except maybe 3d vector.  Overall as long as Intellivision stays in their already expressed lane of mostly party, strategy & pick up and play 2d or pseudo 3d games I don't see any problems.

Only having one USB C port for expansion kinda limits things, but has any console really had more than one expansion port (I bet one has and I am sure someone on AA will know)?

The controller fit well in my hand and I didn't see anyone struggling with it, even Cyrus who is a much bigger guy than me (in fact, he beat me and two other players handily in biplanes so obviously he wasn't struggling *too* much 🙄). Maybe there are some hand sizes (super small or extra bear like) it doesn't work for but I didn't see any evidence of that at the event. The functional interface size is roughly like a cell phone (and not a giant one) so it is pretty much designed for the 98% or something. Personally I saw kids, women and men, big and small, playing just fine.

The controller seems solid. I didn't drop test it or anything but the plastic seemed quality and thick, no creaks or bends, pretty much what you would expect from a controller from the big 3. The front of the controller is polycarbonate so those will scratch if you try hard enough, but the screen interactions are all one, two or three 'buttons' that I saw, so a bit of a scuff or a line isn't going to derail things except cosmetically. They had a lanyard on them, which is a nice touch especially for motion control games, so they are trying to help you keep the controllers from taking unnecessary hits. Obviously long term play comfort or durability is an unknown right now. I was so impressed with the quality of the controller, however, that I am not personally worried about it. I think reasonable care is all that will be required, kind of like a Switch maybe?

5 minutes ago, GrudgeQ said:

1 hour ago, woobman said:

 

I don't really see any problems with the games that Intellivision has said they are making for the Amico. Obviously no analog sticks so any 3D motion, free camera games won't work, but they aren't making any of those.

I believe Amico’s controllers do allow for free roaming games (even if the rest of the system doesn’t) as the disc could control your travel direction and the touch screen could be used like a mouse to controller camera angle. 
 

As Grudge stated, IE is shying away from the associated complexity that comes with this type of control scheme, but I do believe Amico controllers could easily accommodate, even if the rest of the system can't.

Assuming I’m right, just another example on the versatility of the controllers.  

1 hour ago, Starpaddler said:

I believe Amico’s controllers do allow for free roaming games (even if the rest of the system doesn’t) as the disc could control your travel direction and the touch screen could be used like a mouse to controller camera angle. 
 

As Grudge stated, IE is shying away from the associated complexity that comes with this type of control scheme, but I do believe Amico controllers could easily accommodate, even if the rest of the system can't.

 

Assuming I’m right, just another example on the versatility of the controllers.  

Good point. I mean if you compare the Amico disc & screen to, say, a 3d shooter controlled via a keyboard & mouse then the disc is better than the keyboard (at least more flexible, if less tactile than a mechanical keyboard) while the touch screen would be like playing with a touch pad instead of a mouse, so a bit worse. Overall it would probably be an decent (maybe not great) input system for true 3D games, IF Intellivision ever ventured into that territory. For me the disc is kind of like the 'ultimate DPad', sort of like you might consider an analog joystick the 'ultimate joystick' vs digital. You gain a LOT of flexibility & capability but maybe it does a few things slightly worse in some situations.

2 hours ago, GrudgeQ said:

Only having one USB C port for expansion kinda limits things, but has any console really had more than one expansion port (I bet one has and I am sure someone on AA will know)?

I can see when this becomes a success, someone making a USB hub in the shape of...  an old school cart? A small Intellivision?  A mini Amico?  A mini 2600? OR something that the Amico can sit on top of. to keep the lines nice and clean.  Maybe the company that will eventually create the intv Cart reader can incorporate the usb hub in it as well. (along with an M.2 and an Atari 2600/7800 slot. Just to be overkill).

No, I don't know if/when that is happening. I'm just saying Wouldn't that be something^tm?

3 hours ago, GrudgeQ said:

Only having one USB C port for expansion kinda limits things, but has any console really had more than one expansion port (I bet one has and I am sure someone on AA will know)?

The "Big Three" have been putting multiple USB ports into their consoles for approx. 15 years. Not a true "expansion port", but does Amico's USB-C port count, either?

2 minutes ago, Battlefish said:

The "Big Three" have been putting multiple USB ports into their consoles for approx. 15 years. Not a true "expansion port", but does Amico's USB-C port count, either?

I believe Tommy has referred to attaching future items through the USB port and it isn't for attaching something mundane a keyboard or wired controllers so I look at it as an expansion port primarily. Not saying it is radically new, just was trying to list the limitations of the console. Bottom line, not really sure it is a limitation, but it only has one USB port.

8 minutes ago, GrudgeQ said:

I believe Tommy has referred to attaching future items through the USB port and it isn't for attaching something mundane a keyboard or wired controllers so I look at it as an expansion port primarily. Not saying it is radically new, just was trying to list the limitations of the console. Bottom line, not really sure it is a limitation, but it only has one USB port.

I do wonder, with component prices eventually dropping and overall costs going down, whether we'll see a revision of the Amico in a couple years that doesn't return to multiple USB ports on the back rather than the one, if some cool accessories eventually make it into the pipeline.  With Playstation, the NES, Genesis, Master System, the Wii, PS2, PS3, we saw revisions that would remove ports, functionality, adaptors or reduce the audio/visual output options.  Would be interesting if Amico went the other way, considering the USB port was a minimal cost, and if Year 1 and Year 2 aren't selling millions of units but hundreds of thousands, being a slightly less expansion-ready collector's item or simpler variant isn't going to be detrimental.  

4 hours ago, Starpaddler said:

 

16 vs 64 input positions can result in the ability for much smoother control over the original Intellivision.  Take skiing for example; with 16 directions there are only 7 downhill directions (and the associated skier graphics) available which led to somewhat choppy control. With 64 positions the system can accommodate 31 downhill facing directions (and associated skier graphics) if the developers utilize the system to its fullest capabilities.

Intellivision Skiing controls actually has two directions; turn cw and turn ccw; hold the button to turn faster.  The choppiness is due to programming.  But you're correct the extra precision on the amico disc will help, e.g. sports games or any games with open playfields, and steering in racing games.

4 hours ago, Starpaddler said:

One thing that I really hope makes it into the developers control scheme is that the 4 direction maze type games (i.e., Burgertime, Pacman, etc.) allow for pre selecting your upcoming desired turn at the next intersection. Burgertime on Evercade for example will only let you input a turn when you are directly on the intersection, but it would be made much better (IMO) if Petter would turn at the next intersection if the controller was being commanded at a location between the current direction and the one you want to change to.  In this situation, there would need to be 4 zones of pure direction with 4 additional zones of upcoming direction-change between those zones. With 1/8 zoning of the controller (assuming same-size zones; it doesn't need to be) control should be precise enough to allow this assuming the disc is adequately sized. 

Is that arcade burgertime or nes burgertine on the evercade.  No matter, that's how the arcade version is programmed and home conversions often tried to emulate arcade behaviour.  Intellivision burgertime does have that turn in advance behaviour.  I guess the Mattel programmer decided to make an improvement with the controls.  Amico versions are modern reimaginings so they can make all the improvements they want.

Hi tommy.

just wondering if the controller has enough horsepower to become a small mobile game system on its own. Mini games to play on the go?

34 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Intellivision Skiing controls actually has two directions; turn cw and turn ccw; hold the button to turn faster.  The choppiness is due to programming.  But you're correct the extra precision on the amico disc will help, e.g. sports games or any games with open playfields, and steering in racing games.

 

 

Is that arcade burgertime or nes burgertine on the evercade.  No matter, that's how the arcade version is programmed and home conversions often tried to emulate arcade behaviour.  Intellivision burgertime does have that turn in advance behaviour.  I guess the Mattel programmer decided to make an improvement with the controls.  Amico versions are modern reimaginings so they can make all the improvements they want.

Version is on Data East Collection 1 and believe it to be the arcade version.
 

That would explain things for it to remain more pure, but its still a PitA.

thanks

16 minutes ago, nightmonkeyii said:

Hi tommy.

just wondering if the controller has enough horsepower to become a small mobile game system on its own. Mini games to play on the go?

It’s not in the foreseeable future as it goes against the family theme to have something only individual. Could be something down the line 2-3 yrs once it is established if the demand is there, much like online play. 

1 hour ago, nightmonkeyii said:

Hi tommy.

just wondering if the controller has enough horsepower to become a small mobile game system on its own. Mini games to play on the go?

This was asked before and I believe Tommy said the controllers were not made to play stand alone games on it's screen.

9 minutes ago, atarifan88 said:

This was asked before and I believe Tommy said the controllers were not made to play stand alone games on it's screen.

Tommy said they originally wanted to but uts on drawing  board for the next console.  

3 hours ago, Starpaddler said:

Version is on Data East Collection 1 and believe it to be the arcade version.
 

That would explain things for it to remain more pure, but its still a PitA.

 

thanks

The Burgertime on Data East Collection 1 is the NES version.

There have not been any arcade versions of games released yet on the Evercade.  Those are expected to be released sometime in 2021.  Not sure what company's arcade titles will be included but stay tuned as I'm sure the arcade releases will be popular on the Evercade. 

It would be quite cool if the controller could have a Tamagotchi type thing on it, kids would love that 👍😀

10 hours ago, nightmonkeyii said:

Hi tommy.

just wondering if the controller has enough horsepower to become a small mobile game system on its own. Mini games to play on the go?

They could and they might.  If they did I expect it to be an unadvertised feature, like an easter egg.  The games would have to be really simple because of hardware limitations; really simple.  Twenty years ago they had some conversions of intellivision games running on nokia phones.  That should be doable.

On 3/25/2021 at 5:31 AM, MASTER260 said:

Just wondering, will it be available on Amazon US at launch?

Absolutely!  We are doing a lot of very special things with Amazon Prime members in the U.S.  More info coming later in the summer.

On 3/25/2021 at 11:49 PM, cmart604 said:

Please say that the call was about some future special editions. I think the Nightstalker one was my fav. It's now dawning on me that we need a thread that functions as a repository for @CurlyQ console designs. 

Lets just say... you'll be seeing some epic new t-shirt designs coming soon.

On 3/26/2021 at 12:22 PM, GrudgeQ said:

Well I just got back from the Amico event and I will type up a longer post with some pictures but here are the highlights:

 

1) The controller feels great in the hand, the buttons have a really nice click, the screen is smooth and responsive & overall it feels solid - no creaks or bends

2) There is no appreciable lag in the games I played (Missile Command, Skiing, Colossal Crash & BiPlanes)

3) The music is awesome, I especially liked in Astrosmash and the way the music hits a crescendo when the volcano erupts - pretty epic

4) I saw Tommy walk over, press the reset button on the Amico and watched it boot

5) Sticking with my prediction that Skiing is going to be way more popular than most people think

6) In the 1980s I sucked at Biplanes, in 2021 I still suck at Biplanes

7) The numerous game modes make these games have way more play value than you might initially think. For example you can play Biplanes pretty much like the original game, however there is a team mode and you can pit two groups of players against each other (it can even be 3 against 1 if you want) catching all sorts of falling power ups, including bombs, and then use the bombs to hit the opposing team's strike zone for points

 

Overall I had a great time, got to see the Amico running, met several great people including YouTubers like Cyrus Martin and Brett Weiss, had a chance to play the games, watched others play even more of the games (I think 11 were loaded on the machine) and I can't wait until I have one in my living room

 

EDIT: I had typed Asteroids as a game I played, sorry it was * Missile Command * - what I get for not proofreading what I type

Awesome post!  So glad you enjoyed it so much!

On 3/26/2021 at 1:16 PM, Stoke said:

Nice review. It is good to hear the lag issue seems resolved.  Looking forward to Biplanes!

There never was.  Just lies being drummed up by a group of very jealous folks who can't stand the fact that they will be unable to stop our success. 

Kinda funny that even after the event and many multiple people saying there was no gameplay/controller lag... they want people to believe that everyone was lying because they want to be my friend.

Very sad bunch of jealous folks making themselves look dumber and more ridiculous by the day.

On 3/26/2021 at 1:46 PM, GrudgeQ said:

Yep no lag in sight. I am sure with a wireless controller there is a tiny amount but it isn't perceptible to the player, which is what matters. Biplanes is really fun. I played the traditional game with 4 players and it still has the 3 challenges that the original had - you have to maneuver to avoid shots, while leading your shots to hit your opponents AND maintain airspeed at the same time (I stalled several times & face planted on the terrain - a few times I hit the dreaded tower). I sucked like a Dyson but Cyrus Martin was an ace - whipping us all handily by winning 3 out of 4 rounds.

Correct.  ANY wireless anything has some amount of difference between the time you press something and the time it gets to the TV.

Every wireless Playstation, Xbox & Nintendo controller ever made has input latency.  But is it noticeable and does it get in the way of gameplay?  The answer (like Amico) is no.

On 3/26/2021 at 2:19 PM, Starpaddler said:

Or, it was never an issue period, but presented as one from those digging hard to present/invent ones

BINGO!