Independent Amico Discussion Thread

[Steven Pendleton]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

Until the young'uns play and beat games like Ninja Gaiden on NES they will never be hardcore. 

 

What if they beat X-Wing or TIE Fighter instead?

 

Also, does beating Castlevania for NES on PC Engine count? I never had an NES and still don't...

Edited February 17, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, Steven Pendleton said:

What if they beat X-Wing or TIE Fighter instead?

 

Also, does beating Castlevania for NES on PC Engine count? I never had an NES and still don't...

Then I guess you just aren't hardcore. 😋

[+Swami]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

Then I guess you just aren't hardcore. 😋

[NinjaWarrior]

I posted this on Facebook & Twitter, 1st 5 mins about the Amico, Last 5 mins about Intellivision Lives

 

 

 

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, Swami said:

 

[Tavi]

3 hours ago, NinjaWarrior said:

I posted this on Facebook & Twitter, 1st 5 mins about the Amico, Last 5 mins about Intellivision Lives

 

 

 

I have never played the PS1 Classic Games, I wonder if it has anything different for games then from the Intellivision Lives! for the PS2?

Quite the collection of Intellivision goodies! It is interesting to hear that a laptop adapter will power your Intellivision II. You do see them listed on eBay quite often without cords, it is good to know that is not too much of a problem to find a suitable replacement.

As for the flashback, I have heard from several people (and reviews) that the sound quality is unfortunately found lacking. That and a completely broken game (Tower of Doom) put me off of buying one.

[Steven Pendleton]

6 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Then I guess you just aren't hardcore. 😋

Yeah, you're right. If I was actually hardcore, I'd check my email on the game.com, but I don't have one, so I can't.

[MrBeefy]

7 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Yeah, you're right. If I was actually hardcore, I'd check my email on the game.com, but I don't have one, so I can't.

In all seriousness I think hardcore gamer isn't applied but to predominantly FPS group. I think a hardcore gamer is really anyone who has put significant time into gaming and doesn't have to be about specs or certain generations. Personally some of the scores people can track up on the older systems in my book are just as hardcore as a guy playing Fornite all day.

[Steven Pendleton]

9 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

In all seriousness I think hardcore gamer isn't applied but to predominantly FPS group. I think a hardcore gamer is really anyone who has put significant time into gaming and doesn't have to be about specs or certain generations. Personally some of the scores people can track up on the older systems in my book are just as hardcore as a guy playing Fornite all day.

Yeah, that works. I mean, if you beat Pac-Man you're pretty damn hardcore, even if that's the only game you have ever played.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Yeah, that works. I mean, if you beat Pac-Man you're pretty damn hardcore, even if that's the only game you have ever played.

Indeed.

[m-crew]

7 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Yeah, that works. I mean, if you beat Pac-Man you're pretty damn hardcore, even if that's the only game you have ever played.

You are then a damn hardcore pac-man gamer, not a hardcore gamer. lol     

[m-crew]

Here's a hardcore bacon gamer, 😫

 

[Papy]

On 2/17/2020 at 12:52 AM, spoonman said:

the one tried and true method has been the controller/joystick.

As a member of the PC master race... Reeeeeeeee!

 

More seriously, I'm pretty sure a lot more people play games with a touchscreen on their phone or tablet than people who play with a gamepad on a console. I'm even pretty sure more people play games with a mouse and keyboard on their computer than people who play with a gamepad on a console.

 

I see the current gamepads exactly as I see the QWERTY keyboard with staggered keys. Those keyboards were designed to avoid the hammers of a typewriter from jamming. Keyboard don't have hammers anymore, but people are used to this design, they don't want to learn anything new, so they say that the current keyboard design is the tried and true design.

 

I'm guessing you play games on a console and therefore you are used to a gamepad. This is why you view the gamepad as the "tried and true" controller.

 

There was a PC game I played 15 years ago (Trackmania). On the forum of the game, there was a poll asking what kind of controller people use to play the game. Some were playing it with a keyboard, some with gamepad (some with the analog stick, some with the d-pad), some with a wheel, and some with a joystick (that was my case). There was no clear winner.

 

Trackmania required both precision and speed. The wheel was the most precise, but the slowest. The gamepad analog stick was the fastest, but the least precise. The joystick was a compromise between precision and speed. As for the keyboard or the d-pad, since the game was correcting input, it was the least prone to mistake.

 

When I was in the military, we used the HQ computers to play Grand Prix 2 (we were not supposed to, but I was the IT guy). We obviously didn't have access to wheels, so we made our weekend races using keyboards. It might seem highly inefficient, but GP2 had a good keyboard correction, so the game was quite playable.

 

In reality, apart from physical constraints (playing with a mouse/keyboard while relaxing on a couch is kind of difficult), controllers don't matter if the game is designed for that controller. This is why people can play FPS with a gamepad, even if a mouse is clearly faster and more precise. Pseudo-hardcore gamers who are used to gamepads might complain a bit about a new controller design, but most of them will learn.

 

To me, this whole argument about Amico controllers is without merit.

[MrBeefy]

2 minutes ago, Papy said:

As a member of the PC master race... Reeeeeeeee!

 

More seriously, I'm pretty sure a lot more people play games with a touchscreen on their phone or tablet than people who play with a gamepad on a console. I'm even pretty sure more people play games with a mouse and keyboard on their computer than people who play with a gamepad on a console.

 

I see the current gamepads exactly as I see the QWERTY keyboard with staggered keys. Those keyboards were designed to avoid the hammers of a typewriter from jamming. Keyboard don't have hammers anymore, but people are used to this design, they don't want to learn anything new, so they say that the current keyboard design is the tried and true design.

 

I'm guessing you play games on a console and therefore you are used to a gamepad. This is why you view the gamepad as the "tried and true" controller.

 

There was a PC game I played 15 years ago (Trackmania). On the forum of the game, there was a poll asking what kind of controller people use to play the game. Some were playing it with a keyboard, some with gamepad (some with the analog stick, some with the d-pad), some with a wheel, and some with a joystick (that was my case). There was no clear winner.

 

Trackmania required both precision and speed. The wheel was the most precise, but the slowest. The gamepad analog stick was the fastest, but the least precise. The joystick was a compromise between precision and speed. As for the keyboard or the d-pad, since the game was correcting input, it was the least prone to mistake.

 

When I was in the military, we used the HQ computers to play Grand Prix 2 (we were not supposed to, but I was the IT guy). We obviously didn't have access to wheels, so we made our weekend races using keyboards. It might seem highly inefficient, but GP2 had a good keyboard correction, so the game was quite playable.

 

In reality, apart from physical constraints (playing with a mouse/keyboard while relaxing on a couch is kind of difficult), controllers don't matter if the game is designed for that controller. This is why people can play FPS with a gamepad, even if a mouse is clearly faster and more precise. Pseudo-hardcore gamers who are used to gamepads might complain a bit about a new controller design, but most of them will learn.

 

To me, this whole argument about Amico controllers is without merit.

I think the talk of controllers go both ways. I don't see modern Xbox ones being to complex or the Amico too simple. All depends on a game's design. Some games a Xbox controller will look like overkill and on others an Amico controller would be too simple to use. 🤷‍♂️

 

I wonder how many actually prefer the touch controls of a phone or tablet over a keyboard or controller?

[mr_me]

Games programmed with a swipe action control better with a touch-pad.  There are some steam games programmed specifically for the steam controller including its touch-pad; you can ask those gamers how they like it.  I've played games on my phone that are controlled with two touches, left thumb and right thumb, and they control great.  Since Amico games are specifically programmed for the Amico controller I wouldn't expect control to be an issue.

 

Just as some people prefer to use the computer mouse with their left hand and others with their right; non-gamers will appreciate having that choice controlling the amico disc-pad.

[m-crew]

3 hours ago, Papy said:

 

To me, this whole argument about Amico controllers is without merit.

 

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

Games programmed with a swipe action control better with a touch-pad.  There are some steam games programmed specifically for the steam controller including its touch-pad; you can ask those gamers how they like it.  I've played games on my phone that are controlled with two touches, left thumb and right thumb, and they control great.  Since Amico games are specifically programmed for the Amico controller I wouldn't expect control to be an issue.

 

Just as some people prefer to use the computer mouse with their left hand and others with their right; non-gamers will appreciate having that choice controlling the amico disc-pad.

 The Games on the Amico are being designed around the Controller as mr_me has just stated and is being marketed to(not going down this again as we all know by now) I agree with Papy's comment. It's  funny how this topic keeps coming up like its the Never Ending Story with a Bacon Theme.... lol  

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by m-crew

[+kevtris]

4 hours ago, Papy said:

In reality, apart from physical constraints (playing with a mouse/keyboard while relaxing on a couch is kind of difficult), controllers don't matter if the game is designed for that controller. This is why people can play FPS with a gamepad, even if a mouse is clearly faster and more precise. Pseudo-hardcore gamers who are used to gamepads might complain a bit about a new controller design, but most of them will learn.

Well there's a reason why most FPS games don't allow mixing of PC and console gamers- the PC players just absolutely clobber the console ones because they tend to use mouse+keyboard instead of the console game controller.  The mouse is by far more precise for aiming and being able to bind keys on the PC just finishes the job.   Personally, after playing fps games using the keyboard+mouse and trying to play a similar game on a friend's xbox was pretty limiting feeling.  why can't I turn faster dammit! why won't my aim point change faster!   The lack of precision was pretty striking after using the mouse for so long.  It reminded me of how back in the 90's I would use the keyboard only to play quake, and got trounced by all the mouse+keyboard players.  Learning to use the mouse opened up a whole new world.

[Steven Pendleton]

2 hours ago, kevtris said:

Well there's a reason why most FPS games don't allow mixing of PC and console gamers- the PC players just absolutely clobber the console ones because they tend to use mouse+keyboard instead of the console game controller.  The mouse is by far more precise for aiming and being able to bind keys on the PC just finishes the job.   Personally, after playing fps games using the keyboard+mouse and trying to play a similar game on a friend's xbox was pretty limiting feeling.  why can't I turn faster dammit! why won't my aim point change faster!   The lack of precision was pretty striking after using the mouse for so long.  It reminded me of how back in the 90's I would use the keyboard only to play quake, and got trounced by all the mouse+keyboard players.  Learning to use the mouse opened up a whole new world.

First time I ever played FPS was on Mac (Doom, but mainly Unreal/UT99, which was much closer to a modern FPS at that point than Doom). Then I started playing console-exclusive Medal of Honor (except Allied Assault, which is both on PC/Mac and also by far the best one) for a while and it was not bad. Then after playing FPS/TPS exclusively on PC from 2009 to now, I tried BF1943 for the first time in almost ten years not long ago. That crap is completely unplayable on a controller! I can never aim directly at a target, and I always end up aiming too far left or right and have to walk to adjust properly.

[digdugnate]

i kind of straddle the fence on the mouse/keyboard versus controller debate. 

 

for a long time i preferred to game on the PC at my desk with mouse/kb- i did feel like in that environment mouse/kb gives better control and range of motion when you need it.  that being said, honestly for something like that now i'd rather use my controller and sit on the couch simply because i find it more comfortable and enjoyable.  I don't play FPS games for a living, I have no need to 'git gud', and I'm perfectly happy blasting raiders/mutants/demons by myself or playing another game co-op with my wife or kids.

 

different people have different ideas of fun, i guess- i'm good with however someone wants to play their whatever till they try to force their opinion down my throat.

[+Swami]

3 hours ago, kevtris said:

Well there's a reason why most FPS games don't allow mixing of PC and console gamers- the PC players just absolutely clobber the console ones because they tend to use mouse+keyboard instead of the console game controller.  The mouse is by far more precise for aiming and being able to bind keys on the PC just finishes the job.   Personally, after playing fps games using the keyboard+mouse and trying to play a similar game on a friend's xbox was pretty limiting feeling.  why can't I turn faster dammit! why won't my aim point change faster!   The lack of precision was pretty striking after using the mouse for so long.  It reminded me of how back in the 90's I would use the keyboard only to play quake, and got trounced by all the mouse+keyboard players.  Learning to use the mouse opened up a whole new world.

That's exactly why they came up with the FPS Keyboard/Mouse adapters for playstation and xbox, which created all the more controversy. Although, it took them a long time to make the adapters anywhere near as good as a mouse on a PC, they still blew away the dual shock type controllers. For some reason, until late PS3/Xbox 360, 2012-ish, they were pretty rare and the old ones became expensive, probably due to the hate they got. The PS3 ones are harder to find the the Xbox 360 ones, for whatever reason.

[MrBeefy]

So what does everyone think would be the killer game to win over those who might be a doubter? 

 

I think EWJ has some potential, and R-Type for those who love shooters. The possible Ecco game?

 

Thoughts?

 

[Steven Pendleton]

49 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

So what does everyone think would be the killer game to win over those who might be a doubter? 

 

I think EWJ has some potential, and R-Type for those who love shooters. The possible Ecco game?

 

Thoughts?

 

I asked Tommy about the B-17 Bomber remake and R-Type in the QA thread and he said B-17 Bomber is going to be super awesome and totally unique, unlike anything else that's ever been made. I also recommended that he look into R-Type Final 2, and he said he would. Granzella's 2 crowdfunding events for R-Type Final 2 did not go nearly as well as they had hoped for and they issued an apology for it. Very Japanese of them to do so. I'd love to see Intellivision help them by giving them the funding they'd need to make the game they wanted to make.

 

Anyway, maybe B-17 Bomber or EWJ, but R-Type could do it for people like me who like R-Type. In fact it's one of the primary reasons I was interested after seeing the launch trailer when this whole thing was announced.

 

Totally not related, but the Amico seems to me to very much be a passion project console. Has a passion project console that plays its own original games ever been done before? I know, Analogue and MiSTer, but those are clone consoles, not their own original things.

 

By the way, I am almost 100% certain that Ecco game is actually this

 

 

especially since the dev (Playchemy) is listed on the Amico website someplace.

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[MrBeefy]

7 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I asked Tommy about the B-17 Bomber remake and R-Type in the QA thread and he said B-17 Bomber is going to be super awesome and totally unique, unlike anything else that's ever been made. I also recommended that he look into R-Type Final 2, and he said he would. Granzella's 2 crowdfunding events for R-Type Final 2 did not go nearly as well as they had hoped for and they issued an apology for it. Very Japanese of them to do so. I'd love to see Intellivision help them by giving them the funding they'd need to make the game they wanted to make.

 

Anyway, maybe B-17 Bomber or EWJ, but R-Type could do it for people like me who like R-Type. In fact it's one of the primary reasons I was interested after seeing the launch trailer when this whole thing was announced.

 

By the way, I am almost 100% certain that Ecco game is actually this

 

 

especially since the dev is listed on the Amico website someplace.

 

Yeah I was thinking it could be that as well. I think it is cool to see those games being made. How many backers did the original crowdfunding get for the R Type game?

 

 

[Steven Pendleton]

5 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Yeah I was thinking it could be that as well. I think it is cool to see those games being made. How many backers did the original crowdfunding get for the R Type game?

 

 

8051 on Kickstarter

 

There are more counted on the Paypal one on their website, but even there it's very clear that they definitely didn't meet all of their goals. Game got funded in the first one, but that's about it. I had no money, and I jumped in on the second one through Paypal.

 

10076 total between the 2 of them. Not a great result, sadly.

 

https://rtypefinal2.com/project02/

 

Wait, why did posting the Kickstarter URL embed the video? This place is weird sometimes...

Edited February 20, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[MrBeefy]

2 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

8051 on Kickstarter

 

There are more counted on the Paypal one on their website, but even there it's very clear that they definitely didn't meet all of their goals. Game got funded in the first one, but that's about it. I had no money, and I jumped in on the second one through Paypal.

 

10076 total between the 2 of them. Not a great result, sadly.

 

https://rtypefinal2.com/project02/

 

Looked cool. Wonder why it didn't do that good?