Independent Amico Discussion Thread

[MrBeefy]

3 hours ago, TandyVision said:

Sorry everyone, you can yell at me because it was probably answered but I'm late to the party. Will this play all of the original games? Burgertime?

It will also include the jzintv emulator. It don't think it has been said it what capacity. My guess is to run the original games once they start doing that.

[MrBeefy]

3 hours ago, TandyVision said:

Sorry everyone, you can yell at me because it was probably answered but I'm late to the party. Will this play all of the original games? Burgertime?

I noticed I didn't answer completely. They are hoping to start releasing original Intv stuff possibly by summer 2021. What they release will depend on what licenses they have.

[popsicle]

On 2/12/2020 at 3:28 PM, Tavi said:

I do not think I would ever willingly go to a vegan restaurant. I am sure the food is just fine, but instead of eating vegan food that has been made to look and taste like a more appealing meat-based meal I think I would just rather go right for the real thing. 

Just left a vegan Mexican restaurant in San Antonio with my wife, 3 kids, and mom. Best food I've had in a long time. 

 

[spoonman]

On 2/12/2020 at 7:26 AM, 1001lives said:

I don't think you get it. This isn't just about releasing a pack of games and calling it a day. He's already well aware of everything the other consoles offer. He may be chatting with us like any other forum user but he has more experience in this industry than you realize apparently.

 

Tommy is trying to build a new ecosystem within a new platform using a family friendly name that was once a pretty dominant force in gaming (that hasn't been dragged through the mud like Atari's name). His goal isn't to hawk his wares with some cheap software on pre-existing platforms. It's to offer an entirely new, curated gaming space, that functions as a completely unique experience than the current consoles on the market. And by doing that, he can attempt to tap into the same markets the Wii did, or tap into entirely new markets. Especially markets that do not own a game console.

Trust me, I get it. That doesn't change thast fact that I'd like to play some old classic INTV with graphic and sound updates on any of the various, and very capable consoles that many of us already own. That was just my opinion, and in no way means I don't understand what the Amico is.

[spoonman]

Also, going back a few posts.. With all of the hate on the Switch and PS4 consoles for having [T]een and [M]ature rated games, and the Amico on set to fix that by only allowing E rated ganes. Perhaps someone should consider making a brand new DVD Video player which refuses to play any PG-13 and up movies. Or maybe parents could just use the built in parental setting on the console.

 

I bought my 10 year old nephew a PS4 system. I installed several family rated games for him (Overcooked, LittleBigPlanet 3, Monopoly, Battleship, Untitled Goose Game, and Ratchet & Clank), and I also made sure to turn on parental controls, which took all of 5 minutes. I'm not sure how that can be considered difficult. It's really not hard to limit current gen consoles to play onl E rated titles. Some people will have you believe otherwise though. 

He loves the system by the way, and told me I can buy him Minecraft for his birthday.

 

 

I'm still just trying to figure out the demo for the Amico. It's obviously not for me.

 

(Kids).. I am going to assume that would likely be disappointed if they received an Amico system instead of a Switch or PS4. I can also guess that they would rather have either Minecraft or Pokémon than Shark Shark or any other 1980's remake. For the record *I* would rather have the INTV game, but that's me. 

 

(Hardcore gamers).. I consider myself to be in this category. I will admit that I was a bit hyped for a new Earthworm Jim game, which I was basically told wasn't for fans of the classic EWJ style. I can't stand using a touchscreen to play games on. I also dislike the disc controller on the INTV.. Almost as much as I hate the ColecoVision controller. And I wouldn't want to spend $250 on another game console which restricts me to only E rated games.

 

(Granny-Gamers).. They'll take one look at the Amico controller and run back to their very family Wii to continue playing Wii Sports tennis and bowling. 

 

So who does that leave left to sing the praises of the Amico, aside from perhaps the YouTubers wearing Amico branded shirts and hats of course.

 

[mr_me]

They could easily put parental controls on Amico and set the default to E10.  The idea that there will be no games rated higher is really a marketing angle.  They will market that fact to their advantage to distinguish themselves from the others.  They are banking that it will pull more people in than push away.

 

We have to wait and see all the licenses Amico has to see what exactly they have to attract the attention of kids.

 

Many Earthworm Jim fans will buy an Amico because of this game.  A touchpad can be a great interface if programmed correctly; it's why playstation and steam controllers have them.  Of course Amico also has a physical thumb pad and physical buttons.

[SegaSnatcher]

32 minutes ago, mr_me said:

They could easily put parental controls on Amico and set the default to E10.  The idea that there will be no games rated higher is really a marketing angle.  They will market that fact to their advantage to distinguish themselves from the others.  They are banking that it will pull more people in than push away.

 

We have to wait and see all the licenses Amico has to see what exactly they have to attract the attention of kids.

 

Many Earthworm Jim fans will buy an Amico because of this game.  A touchpad can be a great interface if programmed correctly; it's why playstation and steam controllers have them.  Of course Amico also has a physical thumb pad and physical buttons.

If it strays too far from the originals it might alienate them.  I'm not saying it has to be a 1:1 like for like of the original game in style, there are ways to push the franchise forward for modern times, but if you take too much out of what made those original games great then is it really EWJ anymore or something else completely?   

Let's use Star Fox Zero for example.  Nintendo tried to shoehorn in the extra features of the Wii U pad to try and change the original gameplay style up and I think most would say they were unsuccessful and pissed off a lot of Star Fox fans in the process.  Its the old saying "If it ain't broke, stop trying to fix it."  
 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by SegaSnatcher

[mr_me]

As always you have to make good games to sell consoles.  You can't just depend on titles, licenses, and marketing.

[SegaSnatcher]

22 minutes ago, mr_me said:

As always you have to make good games to sell consoles.  You can't just depend on titles, licenses, and marketing.

Indeed.

[mr_me]

I think it's smart that they are advising earthworm jim fans that the new game might be different.  It helps address preconceived notions of what a new earthworm jim game should be.  I think a developer or any artist should make what they want to make and not just pump stuff out to appease fans.

[MarioMan88]

42 minutes ago, mr_me said:

As always you have to make good games to sell consoles.  You can't just depend on titles, licenses, and marketing.

It’s all about the games! Good games, good sales figures...more good games.

 

I have reservations, just as I did when I bought my Sega Dreamcast on 09/09/99. Still played some fun games on it while it lasted!

[m-crew]

2 hours ago, spoonman said:

Also, going back a few posts.. With all of the hate on the Switch and PS4 consoles for having [T]een and [M]ature rated games, and the Amico on set to fix that by only allowing E rated ganes. Perhaps someone should consider making a brand new DVD Video player which refuses to play any PG-13 and up movies. Or maybe parents could just use the built in parental setting on the console.

 

I bought my 10 year old nephew a PS4 system. I installed several family rated games for him (Overcooked, LittleBigPlanet 3, Monopoly, Battleship, Untitled Goose Game, and Ratchet & Clank), and I also made sure to turn on parental controls, which took all of 5 minutes. I'm not sure how that can be considered difficult. It's really not hard to limit current gen consoles to play onl E rated titles. Some people will have you believe otherwise though. 

He loves the system by the way, and told me I can buy him Minecraft for his birthday.

 

 

I'm still just trying to figure out the demo for the Amico. It's obviously not for me.

 

(Kids).. I am going to assume that would likely be disappointed if they received an Amico system instead of a Switch or PS4. I can also guess that they would rather have either Minecraft or Pokémon than Shark Shark or any other 1980's remake. For the record *I* would rather have the INTV game, but that's me. 

 

(Hardcore gamers).. I consider myself to be in this category. I will admit that I was a bit hyped for a new Earthworm Jim game, which I was basically told wasn't for fans of the classic EWJ style. I can't stand using a touchscreen to play games on. I also dislike the disc controller on the INTV.. Almost as much as I hate the ColecoVision controller. And I wouldn't want to spend $250 on another game console which restricts me to only E rated games.

 

(Granny-Gamers).. They'll take one look at the Amico controller and run back to their very family Wii to continue playing Wii Sports tennis and bowling. 

 

So who does that leave left to sing the praises of the Amico, aside from perhaps the YouTubers wearing Amico branded shirts and hats of course.

 

I guess you haven't been reading , all the discussions on both the Amico threads. You have just brought up all the same negative comments and even untrue statements (which there are pages and pages among two threads from the same demographics of hardcore gamer's) There is no hate on the Switch , just facts about what games you can get on the switch. All you concerns have been address over and over and over and over and over by Tommy and IE with facts , focus groups, which demographics they are marketing too.   I guess you didnt by an Amico Shirt or Hat. lol

Edited February 15, 2020 by m-crew

[MrBeefy]

24 minutes ago, mr_me said:

I think it's smart that they are advising earthworm jim fans that the new game might be different.  It helps address preconceived notions of what a new earthworm jim game should be.  I think a developer or any artist should make what they want to make and not just pump stuff out to appease fans.

Wouldn't appeasing fans get you more sales? Look at the Switch vs WiiU.

 

[m-crew]

14 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Wouldn't appeasing fans get you more sales? Look at the Switch vs WiiU.

 

Don't you think that IE and Tommy already addressed that concern several time in this thread.  :p

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, SegaSnatcher said:

If it strays too far from the originals it might alienate them.  I'm not saying it has to be a 1:1 like for like of the original game in style, there are ways to push the franchise forward for modern times, but if you take too much out of what made those original games great then is it really EWJ anymore or something else completely?   

Let's use Star Fox Zero for example.  Nintendo tried to shoehorn in the extra features of the Wii U pad to try and change the original gameplay style up and I think most would say they were unsuccessful and pissed off a lot of Star Fox fans in the process.  Its the old saying "If it ain't broke, stop trying to fix it."  
 

 

I don't think it needs to be a 1 to 1 game either. But I think you are right in it being too different.

 

Way I imagine it is using the microphone to blow his head up in a level he foes up. Motion for steering in like the wormhole race level. Touch screen for control of Jim playing Pong with the puppies trying to not let them get squashed.

 

Thing I'm trying to imagine is buttons. If it stayed someone like a platformer one to jump, one to shoot, touchscreen for whip? 

[mr_me]

How about tap the touchpad to jump, swipe to whip, and shoulder button to fire your weapon.

Edited February 15, 2020 by mr_me

[JeffVav]

5 hours ago, m-crew said:

I guess you haven't been reading , all the discussions on both the Amico threads. You have just brought up all the same negative comments and even untrue statements (which there are pages and pages among two threads from the same demographics of hardcore gamer's) There is no hate on the Switch , just facts about what games you can get on the switch. All you concerns have been address over and over and over and over and over by Tommy and IE with facts , focus groups, which demographics they are marketing too.   I guess you didnt by an Amico Shirt or Hat. lol

The prevalence of these persistent comments is not something to be ignored. If one has to diligently read most every post on a message board thread to "get it" then the marketing won't have done its job.
 

Now, there's been no major mainstream marketing yet, so that's not a knock on an effort that hasn't even started yet. But what these comments suggest is there is a frequent preconception that the marketing, once it starts in force, is going to have overcome, and in people that won't have the benefit of a 1-on-1 exchange with the CEO to clear up. 

[mr_me]

Well we know that their marketing is unlikely to target hardcore gamers. And is the concern about grandparents running away from the controller really valid.  I imagine kids of a certain age might ask for a playstation or xbox, but less likely for those under seven.

Edited February 15, 2020 by mr_me

[JeffVav]

10 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Well we know that their marketing is unlikely to target hardcore gamers. And is the concern about grandparents running away from the controller really valid.  I imagine kids of a certain age might ask for a playstation or xbox, but less likely for those under seven.

First, I hope it succeeds. I would get no thrill in seeing it fail, so whatever comments I make are largely from a place of "what are the hurdles, what can improve its chances?" not "it's going to fail because..." I actually think a lot (not all) of the so-called negativity might be coming from a similar place. There's a difference between critique and negativity. 

 

With that in mind, I was talking to my kids about Amico. My youngest is 16 so maybe older than the "parental control" demo, but young enough to remember what motivated them when they were 10 and 7. 
 

The first comment I got was that kids want what their friends have, no matter the age. And their friends/classmates (perhaps by way of older siblings) are going to be more familiar with the pre-existing brands. So it's a bit of a chicken and egg. Not a reason to fail, but a hurdle to overcome. 
 

They suggested that having a high profile IP for their demographic (not their words) would be key. At the time they were 10 and 7, that might've been Club Penguin. Trying to get market penetration with a new hardware simultaneous with a new (to their age set) software is a more steeply uphill battle. 
 

I remember when I was a teen and my grandmother tried to buy me an Atari 2600 game once. The game she got was way off the mark from what actually interested me. Never heard of it, didn't understand it, played it for 10 minutes and never again. 
 

There's been a lot of talk about how it's going to appeal to parents. We've heard how Amico will make parental controls a non-issue, how it will have more to offer in co-op for parents that do want to play with their kids, but e.g. when those Switch comparisons come up, I think it would benefit to think like the kid too, not just the parent. From a kids' perspective it has the potential to be more like (but not to the extreme of) saying "I want an Atari 2600 game for Christmas" and unwrapping Fun With Numbers. (Or getting a Windows Phone when you wanted an iPhone like everyone else in your class, to pick a less extreme example.) i.e. kid gets parent's idea of what they want the kid to play rather than what they actually want to play. 
 

So once they get an Amico, they need to be pleasantly surprised. If by chance Kid A gets Amico, you want to be sure they tell Kid B "go for it" when Kid B says their parent is wondering if they should get one. 
 

There needs to be selling points for word of mouth to work amongst the kids too, not just the parents.

 

Again not saying they haven't thought of this. Just that it's a missing part of the picture that hasn't been highlighted so much in these discussions. And I'm not saying Tommy owes us answers either. The eventual marketing campaign will presumably reveal all. But in the meantime I wonder aloud about it in a group where we're invited to discuss such things. 

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

How about tap the touchpad to jump, swipe to whip, and shoulder button to fire your weapon.

Would work unless you need precision to jump amd whip in close succession.

 

If you've played Zelda on the DS you know the frustrations of trying to roll sometimes and not have it register a swipe.

[MrBeefy]

51 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Well we know that their marketing is unlikely to target hardcore gamers. And is the concern about grandparents running away from the controller really valid.  I imagine kids of a certain age might ask for a playstation or xbox, but less likely for those under seven.

I would be worried about eyesight and that screen. Motion controls will be great. Controls that require looking at the screen will not be great for those whose eyesight is failing. Think someone mentioned going from looking at phone to the TV in this thread or the other. That could be problematic.

 

Simplistic buttons and motion controls should be fine. It was fine for Wii.

[mr_me]

I agree about adjusting to seeing the screen.  While, urgency to switch between the TV and controller screens should be avoided, not every game will be for everyone.  Take a card game for example, that should work for everyone.

Edited February 15, 2020 by mr_me

[MrBeefy]

8 minutes ago, mr_me said:

I agree about adjusting to seeing the screen.  While, urgency to switch between the TV and controller screens should be avoided, not every game will be for everyone.  Take a card game for example, that should work for everyone.

Yeah and its also a great example of looking at your hand and transitioning to the TV. At least most games shouldn't require quick reflexes in terms of card games.

[JeffVav]

Not to dis my grandmother's tech acumen above BTW. I made the same mistake of second guessing what my oldest would want when he was 7...
 

He wanted a computer of his own. I bought him a 1st gen OLPC. (There was a buy one/donate one programme I participated in.) I thought they were the future for kids and computers. Cute fluffy UI but rugged hardware and Linux underneath for when he might be able to get serious one day. Barely got any use at all. Bought him an entry level Windows machine (all-in-one Compaq desktop) instead within a little over a year. 
 

To the OLPC's credit I'm sure the R&D that went into it is why netbooks came into being and I still prefer netbooks as my travel PC, so there were some solid ideas there. 

 

For those that don't know about the OLPC, it's an interesting story:

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17233946/olpcs-100-laptop-education-where-is-it-now

Edited February 15, 2020 by JeffVav
Accuracy

[m-crew]

2 hours ago, JeffVav said:

First, I hope it succeeds. I would get no thrill in seeing it fail, so whatever comments I make are largely from a place of "what are the hurdles, what can improve its chances?" not "it's going to fail because..." I actually think a lot (not all) of the so-called negativity might be coming from a similar place. There's a difference between critique and negativity. 

 

With that in mind, I was talking to my kids about Amico. My youngest is 16 so maybe older than the "parental control" demo, but young enough to remember what motivated them when they were 10 and 7. 
 

The first comment I got was that kids want what their friends have, no matter the age. And their friends/classmates (perhaps by way of older siblings) are going to be more familiar with the pre-existing brands. So it's a bit of a chicken and egg. Not a reason to fail, but a hurdle to overcome. 
 

They suggested that having a high profile IP for their demographic (not their words) would be key. At the time they were 10 and 7, that might've been Club Penguin. Trying to get market penetration with a new hardware simultaneous with a new (to their age set) software is a more steeply uphill battle. 
 

I remember when I was a teen and my grandmother tried to buy me an Atari 2600 game once. The game she got was way off the mark from what actually interested me. Never heard of it, didn't understand it, played it for 10 minutes and never again. 
 

There's been a lot of talk about how it's going to appeal to parents. We've heard how Amico will make parental controls a non-issue, how it will have more to offer in co-op for parents that do want to play with their kids, but e.g. when those Switch comparisons come up, I think it would benefit to think like the kid too, not just the parent. From a kids' perspective it has the potential to be more like (but not to the extreme of) saying "I want an Atari 2600 game for Christmas" and unwrapping Fun With Numbers. (Or getting a Windows Phone when you wanted an iPhone like everyone else in your class, to pick a less extreme example.) i.e. kid gets parent's idea of what they want the kid to play rather than what they actually want to play. 
 

So once they get an Amico, they need to be pleasantly surprised. If by chance Kid A gets Amico, you want to be sure they tell Kid B "go for it" when Kid B says their parent is wondering if they should get one. 
 

There needs to be selling points for word of mouth to work amongst the kids too, not just the parents.

 

Again not saying they haven't thought of this. Just that it's a missing part of the picture that hasn't been highlighted so much in these discussions. And I'm not saying Tommy owes us answers either. campaign wThe eventual marketing ill presumably reveal all. But in the meantime I wonder aloud about it in a group where we're invited to discuss such things. 

I think you hit the point with among kids as well, but hopefully once on family and child has the AMICO and other's kids come over and try it , it convince's them and so on. That's what happen with me when I was a child. Most my friends had an Atari 2600, but once one of my friends purchased an intellivision. I kept asking my parents for an intellivision until they finilly purchased one.   BTW your post's opinion's and thought's are very well expressed and thought out..   Cheers Brother..  This quote of yours and quality/fun of the games  "The eventual marketing will presumably reveal all"