Independent Amico Discussion Thread

[Steven Pendleton]

2 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Looked cool. Wonder why it didn't do that good?

It was only open for 7 days on Kickstarter. The second one was 30 days.

 

By the way, I played the PS4 demo that Granzella had at Tokyo Game Show and it looks absolutely beautiful in person. As for control... well, it's R-Type. Anyone who has played R-Type knows exactly what to expect.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[Steven Pendleton]

3 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Looked cool. Wonder why it didn't do that good?

I thought about it some more, and I realized, in addition to the short funding time,

 

1. R-Type is an old-fashioned arcade shooter, and I don't know how popular those are. Probably not very, as nobody plays slow-moving or non-bullet hell types like this these days

2. R-Type's reputation for difficulty may scare people away

3. People don't like crowdfunding

 

I understand #3, especially after Star Citizen is still not released due to massive feature creep among other crowdfunding disasters, but the others make me feel kind of sad. R-Type and R-Type II are essentially perfectly designed games with beautiful graphics, awesome music, great mechanics, and a difficult, but not unfair, challenge. They are very slow compared to even other shooters of that age or older like Gradius and Darius, though I don't see this as a bad thing.

[roots.genoa]

7 hours ago, digdugnate said:

i kind of straddle the fence on the mouse/keyboard versus controller debate. 

 

for a long time i preferred to game on the PC at my desk with mouse/kb- i did feel like in that environment mouse/kb gives better control and range of motion when you need it.  that being said, honestly for something like that now i'd rather use my controller and sit on the couch simply because i find it more comfortable and enjoyable.  I don't play FPS games for a living, I have no need to 'git gud', and I'm perfectly happy blasting raiders/mutants/demons by myself or playing another game co-op with my wife or kids.

 

different people have different ideas of fun, i guess- i'm good with however someone wants to play their whatever till they try to force their opinion down my throat.

Exactly. There are (at least) two parameters for me: efficiency and confort. I think I'm even more efficient with a stylus than a mouse (it's lighter) but playing a FPS on a DS was not confortable at all... ^^ To me, the Wiimote/Nunchuk combo offers the right balance but it's subjective of course. What bothers me in this debate is that when people explain why mouse/keyboard in superior, they mostly talk about the mouse. Because let's be honest; the keyboard sucks for any game except Typing of the Dead! Sorry, I'm slightly kidding, but I personally suck with a keyboard. I've got small hands so it's tough to reach CTRL/SHIFT to crouch or run. Most of the time it makes me move my hand slightly so I lean left like an idiot instead of escaping a monster!

[Steven Pendleton]

6 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

Wiimote/Nunchuk combo

I can't believe people say this combination is bad or uncomfortable. Horizontal Wiimote like for Other M is not very comfortable, but I see absolutely no reason to dislike the combination at all, unless maybe we are talking about accessibility for disabled gamers who might have trouble with it since you have two separate things to hold on to. I think that could be difficult if you only have 1 hand or partial physical disability in 1 or both hands.

 

Metroid Prime also shows how easy aiming with this combination is, and the Wii versions of MP1 would be the best if they hadn't removed most of the sequence-breaking. I could see someone getting tired of waving their arms around, though, and sometimes I have signal interference from the sun of all things in the afternoon. I'm not about to build Starkiller Base to drain the sun out of existence just so I can play Metroid Prime within the hours of 1400~1800, though.

 

Good thing we have come a long way with motion controls since the Wii. The dice rolling video from a few weeks ago was pretty interesting.

[digdugnate]

8 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

So what does everyone think would be the killer game to win over those who might be a doubter? 

 

I think EWJ has some potential, and R-Type for those who love shooters. The possible Ecco game?

 

Thoughts?

 

Microsurgeon! Microsurgeon! hehehe 😂

 

i can't think of a specific named title that they wouldn't have to license, but what about board-type games like a war game or chess?  (although I realized just now the juxtaposition of war game and chess is pretty funny)  Turn-based tactical or strategy games would be cool too. 

 

Thinking on the Imagic titles, was Demon Attack mentioned?  There could be some pretty cool modern things done with that.

[Steven Pendleton]

You know what else would be cool? A remake of Herzog Zwei.

[MrBeefy]

Just now, Steven Pendleton said:

You know what else would be cool? A remake of Herzog Zwei.

Don't think I know that one.

[Steven Pendleton]

3 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Don't think I know that one.

It's a really cool RTS for MD/Genesis. Some people say it's the first RTS ever since the whole thing is in real-time, unlike Utopia on INTV. Others say it isn't, but the important thing is that it's really awesome! I just picked up a copy yesterday and I can't wait to actually get some time to sit down and play it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei

Edited February 20, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[roots.genoa]

3 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I could see someone getting tired of waving their arms around

I think one of the misconceptions about the Wiimote is that you have to raise your arm to point at the sensor bar. My arm just rests on my thigh and I use the Wiimote as I would some kind of stylus on a virtual, vertical touch screen. My favorite FPS experience on the Wii was the GoldenEye remake, because you could twist the nunchuk to lean left and right in an analog fashion, which is impossible with a keyboard.

[MrBeefy]

10 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

I think one of the misconceptions about the Wiimote is that you have to raise your arm to point at the sensor bar. My arm just rests on my thigh and I use the Wiimote as I would some kind of stylus on a virtual, vertical touch screen. My favorite FPS experience on the Wii was the GoldenEye remake, because you could twist the nunchuk to lean left and right in an analog fashion, which is impossible with a keyboard.

Wolves Goldeneye on the Wii!

 

That would be a system seller but FPS are out.

[Steven Pendleton]

I just got another idea. If Tommy can't get the rights to Sonic, or even if he can, I'd like to see a 2D sprite-based Sonic clone starring the Running Man. He could run through worlds based on the old INTV games. So like you know how Sonic 3's Ice Cap has the snowboarding part? Same thing, but with skiing instead preceded/followed by the same exploratory high-speed platforming as Sonic. Each world would have its own special unique gimmick, like Sonic. Multiplayer would be split-screen racing, time trials, or maybe score attack. Basically Sonic Mania but with the Running Man.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[digdugnate]

i guess there's stuff like 'Bit Trip Runner', too-

[MrBeefy]

52 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I just got another idea. If Tommy can't get the rights to Sonic, or even if he can, I'd like to see a 2D sprite-based Sonic clone starring the Running Man. He could run through worlds based on the old INTV games. So like you know how Sonic 3's Ice Cap has the snowboarding part? Same thing, but with skiing instead preceded/followed by the same exploratory high-speed platforming as Sonic. Each world would have its own special unique gimmick, like Sonic. Multiplayer would be split-screen racing, time trials, or maybe score attack. Basically Sonic Mania but with the Running Man.

I was thinking about how if they could get Sega/Sonic that would be huge. It would most definitely get the Sega diehards.

[MrBeefy]

34 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

i guess there's stuff like 'Bit Trip Runner', too-

Bit Trip is great. I don't think of it as a system seller but it is a fun game that would go well with a team up with the running man!

[Steven Pendleton]

42 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

i guess there's stuff like 'Bit Trip Runner', too-

The dev for that is listed on the Amico website.

[MrBeefy]

2 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

The dev for that is listed on the Amico website.

Do we know who was working on the 'running game' in one of the trailers?

[Steven Pendleton]

Just now, MrBeefy said:

Do we know who was working on the 'running game' in one of the trailers?

Nope, but I think you may have just figured it out.

 

As for Sega, that would be great, but with their DLC practices, I have a hard time seeing them agreeing to selling stuff for under $10. Maybe they'd be okay with it since they are still trying to recover from Dreamcast and need all the money they can get, though.

[+Tommy Tallarico]

20 hours ago, Papy said:

As a member of the PC master race... Reeeeeeeee!

 

More seriously, I'm pretty sure a lot more people play games with a touchscreen on their phone or tablet than people who play with a gamepad on a console. I'm even pretty sure more people play games with a mouse and keyboard on their computer than people who play with a gamepad on a console.

 

I see the current gamepads exactly as I see the QWERTY keyboard with staggered keys. Those keyboards were designed to avoid the hammers of a typewriter from jamming. Keyboard don't have hammers anymore, but people are used to this design, they don't want to learn anything new, so they say that the current keyboard design is the tried and true design.

 

I'm guessing you play games on a console and therefore you are used to a gamepad. This is why you view the gamepad as the "tried and true" controller.

 

There was a PC game I played 15 years ago (Trackmania). On the forum of the game, there was a poll asking what kind of controller people use to play the game. Some were playing it with a keyboard, some with gamepad (some with the analog stick, some with the d-pad), some with a wheel, and some with a joystick (that was my case). There was no clear winner.

 

Trackmania required both precision and speed. The wheel was the most precise, but the slowest. The gamepad analog stick was the fastest, but the least precise. The joystick was a compromise between precision and speed. As for the keyboard or the d-pad, since the game was correcting input, it was the least prone to mistake.

 

When I was in the military, we used the HQ computers to play Grand Prix 2 (we were not supposed to, but I was the IT guy). We obviously didn't have access to wheels, so we made our weekend races using keyboards. It might seem highly inefficient, but GP2 had a good keyboard correction, so the game was quite playable.

 

In reality, apart from physical constraints (playing with a mouse/keyboard while relaxing on a couch is kind of difficult), controllers don't matter if the game is designed for that controller. This is why people can play FPS with a gamepad, even if a mouse is clearly faster and more precise. Pseudo-hardcore gamers who are used to gamepads might complain a bit about a new controller design, but most of them will learn.

 

To me, this whole argument about Amico controllers is without merit.

Thank you.

I've been saying the exact same thing for months.

People sometimes have issues seeing outside their own hardcore bubbles.  The argument goes something like this...

 

"I love playing video games with dual analog sticks and 12 - 15 extra buttons... so everyone must!  And even though I've never played a game on this new controller (even though the games are MADE specifically for it) it can't possibly be good because it's not exactly the way I prefer to play my video games over the past 20 years!"

 

 

I personally hate playing 1st person shooters and any kind of driving game on dual analog sticks.  They are total crap when compared to a mouse and keyboard or steering wheel input.  That is my personal opinion... probably because I remember playing those types of games BEFORE dual analog sticks came out.  But I wouldn't fault anyone for liking to play a 1st person shooter on a dual analog stick... and I wouldn't look at a new and unique controller and say it sucks before ever having a chance to actually play the games that were made specifically for it.  Because... I did that once... and I was WRONG.

So I get it.  I understand why people are having a negative reaction.  I learned the hard way myself actually... because I reacted negatively to the Wii controller when I first saw it (before playing it).  I thought Nintendo was crazy and it was the nail in their coffin.  I was totally wrong.  It was fun to play for some games in the way they made those games specifically for that controller. 

So I don't try to fault folks for reacting negatively to our controller.  I only ask that maybe they can keep an open mind and play our games on it before passing a judgement.  Sounds fair.

 

 

 

 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

20 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

I wonder how many actually prefer the touch controls of a phone or tablet over a keyboard or controller?

 

About 3 billion!  

 

[mr_me]

2 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

It's a really cool RTS for MD/Genesis. Some people say it's the first RTS ever since the whole thing is in real-time, unlike Utopia on INTV. Others say it isn't, but the important thing is that it's really awesome! I just picked up a copy yesterday and I can't wait to actually get some time to sit down and play it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei

Intellivision Utopia is real-time.

 

25 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I was thinking about how if they could get Sega/Sonic that would be huge. It would most definitely get the Sega diehards.

How big is Sonic?  I've seen eight year old kids that watch Sonic cartoons and are big fans.  Is there any reason Sega wouldn't license Sonic and Ecco to Intellivision Entertainment.

Edited February 20, 2020 by mr_me

[Steven Pendleton]

7 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Intellivision Utopia is real-time.

 

How big is Sonic?  I've seen eight year old kids that watch Sonic cartoons and are big fans.  Is there any reason Sega wouldn't license Sonic and Ecco to them.

I know. It still has some parts that are not in real-time, from what I understand, but I have not played it yet and am partially ignorant of the specifics. I got the cart in the mail along with my Intellivision yesterday, though, and I am looking forward to trying it when I figure out my INTV setup. H2 never stops unless you actually hit start.

 

And Sonic is pretty big, by the way. Not sure how well Sega would take to selling Sonic for under $10, though. New 2D Sonic game like a hypothetical exclusive Sonic Mania 2= system seller.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[MrBeefy]

23 minutes ago, mr_me said:

How big is Sonic?  I've seen eight year old kids that watch Sonic cartoons and are big fans.  Is there any reason Sega wouldn't license Sonic and Ecco to Intellivision Entertainment.

I think Sonic is still relevant and with the movie that will help. With Amico being 2D focus now would be a good time for them to crank out something.

 

Maybe the bonus crystal levels could be played on the touchscreen controller. Like incorporate mean bean as the bonus level. To get the crystal you have to win the minigame.

 

I know Sonic 3 never seems to get rereleased anywhere due to music I think. Maybe they can make a Sonic 3.5 redo its graphics some and have Tommy help with a new soundtrack?

 

🤷‍♂️

[Steven Pendleton]

14 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

"I love playing video games with dual analog sticks and 12 - 15 extra buttons... so everyone must!  And even though I've never played a game on this new controller (even though the games are MADE specifically for it) it can't possibly be good because it's not exactly the way I prefer to play my video games over the past 20 years!"

This is the #2 reason that I dislike emulation. Some games/systems need the original controller that the game was designed for. I really don't like playing 6 button Genesis games on anything but a 6 button Sega controller, for example. Yes, it's playable with Nintendo-style 4 face buttons + 2 shoulder buttons, but doesn't mean I like that controller for those games. Right now I am using my MiSTer with a wireless Saturn controller and playing SNES games is super awkward with it, so I don't and use my SFC or Super Nt instead. It just feels wrong to me, even though I never had one as a kid and the Saturn controller has more than enough buttons. Can't wait for BlisSTer.

 

I think a lot of people see the Amico controller and the number and placement of the buttons and the disc and assume the controller is crap because it might appear to only have 2 usable buttons at once because they want to hold it horizontally, a funky touchscreen, and a weird disc thingy instead of the stick or d-pad they are used to. Anyone who has used an original INTV or ColecoVision controller (among others) is like "Oh, this again? No problem!" but those who have not are confused. Then again, some of those same people who have used the original and not gotten to use the Amico controller yet are also maybe thinking "Oh, this again? This is not 1979 anymore." I personally don't mind the controller, especially after I've reacquainted myself with the original controller over the past day of trying to get my INTV to work. It's really not that bad, and even as a kid I always thought it was super cool, even if the number pad is super intimidating to a kid.

[Steven Pendleton]

4 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I think Sonic is still relevant and with the movie that will help. With Amico being 2D focus now would be a good time for them to crank out something.

 

Maybe the bonus crystal levels could be played on the touchscreen controller. Like incorporate mean bean as the bonus level. To get the crystal you have to win the minigame.

 

I know Sonic 3 never seems to get rereleased anywhere due to music I think. Maybe they can make a Sonic 3.5 redo its graphics some and have Tommy help with a new soundtrack?

 

🤷‍♂️

Not even that; just give Sonic 3 a 16:9 aspect ratio and use the music they found in the Sonic 3 prototype and it's perfect. Having Tommy make some more music to replace the controversial stuff would just be great, though.

[MrBeefy]

44 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

"I love playing video games with dual analog sticks and 12 - 15 extra buttons... so everyone must!  And even though I've never played a game on this new controller (even though the games are MADE specifically for it) it can't possibly be good because it's not exactly the way I prefer to play my video games over the past 20 years!"

Yup I really hate playing those new modern controllers that have 12 or more buttons...