Independent Amico Discussion Thread

[+Swami]

3 hours ago, m-crew said:

Is this just your opinion because you have issues in being precise playing those games or do you have facts to back your point. Because I’m sure there’s would be a lot of people that have an opposite opinion of yours.  
 
 

It's completely anecdotal, like most everything in this thread, to be taken with a grain of salt. It's a discussion thread, but I wouldn't say a fact finding thread.

[Steven Pendleton]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

Breakout had a rotary controller.  Other ball and paddle games had levers.  I had a pong game that had slide controllers not unlike the touchpad action.  For me rotary controllers work best but a touchpad is better than a thumbstick or dpad.

 

In those days some laptop manufacturers had trackballs where the trackpad is now.  I was disappointed that went way but they said they got dirty, weren't reliable.  No doubt the touchpad is superior to the ibm thinkpad nub/stick but most people insist on having a mouse.

I remember trying to play stuff with trackballs back in the 90s and never really enjoyed it. When I was in the Marines, one of my friends used to play Battlefield 3 and StarCraft II with a trackball. Went to his room once since he lived literally directly downstairs in the same barracks and I freaked out when his roommate let me in and I saw him playing BF3 with a damn trackball of all things. I was like "how the hell do you do that?" and he said something like "I don't know, I just do".

[m-crew]

16 minutes ago, Swami said:

It's completely anecdotal, like most everything in this thread, to be taken with a grain of salt. It's a discussion thread, but I wouldn't say a fact finding thread.

I agree ,

but when comments are made like or intended as hard facts then the discussion becomes about providing proof off with those  comments. 
 

Also there has been the same comments over and over about the controller and the Amigo even when IE or Tommy provides hard facts to counter those negative comments. 
 

This thread in my opinion has more intent to it then to have a civil conversation or discussion. 

but that is just my opinion by seeing what has been posted throughout all 44 pages. 

 
 

 

 

[+Swami]

1 hour ago, m-crew said:

I agree ,

but when comments are made like or intended as hard facts then the discussion becomes about providing proof off with those  comments. 
 

Also there has been the same comments over and over about the controller and the Amigo even when IE or Tommy provides hard facts to counter those negative comments. 
 

This thread in my opinion has more intent to it then to have a civil conversation or discussion. 

but that is just my opinion by seeing what has been posted throughout all 44 pages. 

 
 

 

 

Yeah, the people who state their skeptical opinions as fact? A few of those here.

 

There's also the moving point of reference argument: 

Q:How many people prefer touch screen controls?

A: 3 billion

R1: but they're not good for twitch games

R2: some twitch games are better with touch screen

R1: but I'm talking about twitch games that aren't better with touch screens

 

So the argument ends up becoming that the subset of games that are not better on touch screens, in his opinion, are not better on touch screens, IHO.

[+Tommy Tallarico]

6 hours ago, spoonman said:

Touch screen controls on mobile phones are perfect.... For messaging, playing solitaire, Bejeweled type games. However, they are not ideal for any twitch games which require precise controls. 

I agree for certain things... but other things I would disagree.

 

Using the touchscreen as one big FIRE button is actually pretty cool.  Actually a lot quicker than a typical button.  But with Amico... you can BOTH choices for certain games if you'd like.

 

The other great part of a touchscreen for controls is that it's a LOT better for a game like Missile Command or Centipede... imagine a touchscreen instead of a rollerball.  Touching and moving around on the screen moves the character... it's pretty slick and MUCH better than trying to control a game like Missile Command with an analog stick or (GOD FORBID) a d-pad!

 

 

 

 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

5 hours ago, mr_me said:

I think it's already clear that the old Intellivision games are also exclusive to Amico going forward.  There will be an Atgames collectible but it's an exception.  Spoonman makes a good point that the intellivision lives CDs were as much a historical collection as a games collection and the old PC versions don't work on modern computers.  The intellivision emulator actually works but the rest of the CD doesn't.

 

Some of it is here but the websites never had as much information as the CD.  https://history.blueskyrangers.com

Not ATGames.  Hell no.  Very distrustful people who continue to abuse our licenses. 

Arcade 1UP are the folks we're working with for the exclusive baby handheld original Intellivision.  It's so cool!  Will post pics in the Q&A thread next week from Toy Fair in NYC!

 

 

[MrBeefy]

7 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

I agree for certain things... but other things I would disagree.

 

Using the touchscreen as one big FIRE button is actually pretty cool.  Actually a lot quicker than a typical button.  But with Amico... you can BOTH choices for certain games if you'd like.

 

The other great part of a touchscreen for controls is that it's a LOT better for a game like Missile Command or Centipede... imagine a touchscreen instead of a rollerball.  Touching and moving around on the screen moves the character... it's pretty slick and MUCH better than trying to control a game like Missile Command with an analog stick or (GOD FORBID) a d-pad!

 

 

I could see Missile Command benefitting a lot from the touch controls. I could play it with a joystick but it never felt right.

[+Tommy Tallarico]

4 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

It will be interesting. Not sure what they would do but I don't see why they wouldn't release compilations. Amico isn't suppose to be a retro console.

 

Making the original games only available on the Amico might send the wrong signal. 🤷‍♂️

What is the wrong signal?  Does Nintendo release it's old games on XBOX?

We have zero intention of releasing old games on any other console at this point.  Fine to do it when we didn't have our own console... but now that we do... zero reason to do it.  Especially without a proper controller.

 

I was displeased with every one of those compilations because you can't replicate the controller with a joystick, d-pad, dual analog stick or keyboard or mouse.  No reason to put out inferior products that are practically unplayable just for the sake of licensing.

 

 

 

[MrBeefy]

Just now, Tommy Tallarico said:

What is the wrong signal?  Does Nintendo release it's old games on XBOX?

We have zero intention of releasing old games on any other console at this point.  Fine to do it when we didn't have our own console... but now that we do... zero reason to do it.  Especially without a proper controller.

 

I was displeased with every one of those compilations because you can't replicate the controller with a joystick, d-pad, dual analog stick or keyboard or mouse.  No reason to put out inferior products that are practically unplayable just for the sake of licensing.

 

 

Guess I could see that. I didn't think the DS one was bad.

 

People don't buy a Switch specifically for the NES library but it is a benefit. I was more thinking of comparisons to the NES and SNES Classic Editions.

 

Waiting to release the old games would help with that too, which you are holding off doing until 2021.

 

So are you worried that the compilations would do more harm than good to Amico? I really haven't heard anything terrible about them. Obviously the controller is a big difference.

[ColecoJoe]

3 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Guess I could see that. I didn't think the DS one was bad.

 

If I remember correctly the DS version cuts off about 25% of the bottom screen in Minotaur (Treasure of Tarmin) which makes playing it very difficult if not impossible since you can't see your left and right hands and don't know what's in your inventory. 

[MrBeefy]

1 minute ago, ColecoJoe said:

If I remember correctly the DS version cuts off about 25% of the bottom screen in Minotaur (Treasure of Tarmin) which makes playing it very difficult if not impossible since you can't see your left and right hands and don't know what's in your inventory. 

Guess I didn't play it enough. 🤣

[ColecoJoe]

Just now, MrBeefy said:

Guess I didn't play it enough. 🤣

Think about how I felt when I purchased it mostly to play that game

 

 

[Steven Pendleton]

9 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Not ATGames.  Hell no.  Very distrustful people who continue to abuse our licenses.

Good. Ms. Pac-Man is a mess right now because of them. Or it was last I checked. Maybe Namco figured it out since I was last aware of the situation, but I don't know.

 

6 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

What is the wrong signal?  Does Nintendo release it's old games on XBOX?

We have zero intention of releasing old games on any other console at this point.  Fine to do it when we didn't have our own console... but now that we do... zero reason to do it.  Especially without a proper controller.

 

I was displeased with every one of those compilations because you can't replicate the controller with a joystick, d-pad, dual analog stick or keyboard or mouse.  No reason to put out inferior products that are practically unplayable just for the sake of licensing.

 

 

 

This question probably belongs in the other thread, but since it was brought up here a few pages ago, I'll ask it here. Is there going to be some sort of Intellivision historical stuff like what apparently exists on those older compilations? Commercials, etc. I'd kind of like to see a thing where you can walk through a virtual Intellivision museum and inspect all of the different models of the Intellivision up close. Like actually pick them up, flip them over, read about them, and then do the same with the boxes for all of the original games, provided licensing isn't an issue.

[Steven Pendleton]

Well, it looks like we have Sonic, some sort of 2D Running Man platformer, and possibly Worms (in discussion). I wonder if that Running Man platformer is that thing we saw briefly in one of the trailers or something different.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[JeffVav]

2 hours ago, Swami said:

Yeah, the people who state their skeptical opinions as fact? A few of those here.

 

There's also the moving point of reference argument: 

Q:How many people prefer touch screen controls?

A: 3 billion

R1: but they're not good for twitch games

R2: some twitch games are better with touch screen

R1: but I'm talking about twitch games that aren't better with touch screens

 

So the argument ends up becoming that the subset of games that are not better on touch screens, in his opinion, are not better on touch screens, IHO.

The original claim "3 billion prefer touchscreens" (for gaming) isn't technically fact. They find it sufficient, particularly for the genres they might play. I'd suggest those who are exclusively mobile gamers are not so because they prefer touchscreens, but because they are casual gamers who didn't feel motivated to buy a dedicated gaming device, and so playing games on the smartphone they already have is sufficient to sate their gaming impulses.
 

Plus it allows them to fill time on the bus, in waiting rooms, etc. To illustrate my point: I'm not currently responding to this post on my phone because I prefer a touchscreen over my keyboard. It's just sufficient and the timing is more convenient at the moment. 
 

Anyway, the genre is relevant, particularly because the Amico games shown so far are twitch games, whereas the 3 billion cited are less likely to be playing twitch games (statistically, based on what most mobile games are).

But you don't need to get your claws out at this opinion because...

 

If Amico only had touch controls I'd be sceptical, but I'd wager most twitch games on Amico are going to use the physical buttons and d-pad as the primary control. So I don't really see the issue. 

And yes you can use touch screens for some twitch games of course, probably most commonly in a trackpad fashion. I could see a skiing game using slides and gestures.

 

The problem with mobile is you basically have no choice but to use a touchscreen no matter what game you're trying to make. Amico has options, so I don't see the issue. The physical D-pad and four (was it?) side buttons are still more than the Atari 2600 had and no one is saying it wasn't good for twitch games. 

And yeah Tommy has been implying some sort of "patent pending" tactile feedback system for touch screen, which would be interesting. 
 

BTW am I imagining things or do I recall the D-pad can effectively be used as a spinner? Maybe it was just that it had 36 (?) contact points and you could run your finger around the disk to simulate a spinner like behaviour. 
 

My only concern about the touchscreen is one that's already been raised: if I switch between the TV and my phone during a commercial, I don't have progressive lenses so have to take off my glasses. It's not something I'd enjoy being forced to do a lot. 
 

Edit: maybe Tommy needs to look into another patent for a lensing system that projects the touchscreen content at a further focal distance.

Edited February 21, 2020 by JeffVav

[Papy]

3 hours ago, m-crew said:

This thread in my opinion has more intent to it then to have a civil conversation or discussion.

I believe the intent of this thread was to avoid fanboyism and, to some degree, censorship (I might, of course, be wrong). Having said that, it's clear there are people posting here who have a personal agenda.

 

We know very little about the console and the games on it, so judgments are mostly a reflection of what people want to believe.

 

In my case, I'm not a fan of what video games have become. I still buy a few games. During the Christmas holiday I bought Opus Magnum and Elite Dangerous. However, overall, there is nothing that interests me much anymore. I feel left out. Because of this feeling of being left out, I want to believe Amico will take the market by storm and change the scene. Even if I don't know what I will be getting, I have nothing to lose. Therefore I have a bias to defend and, to some degree, an agenda to promote the console.

 

I'm guessing that people who are satisfied with the current consoles do not want a change of paradigm. If Amico is successful, and if they don't like it, those people have a justified fear of being left out. Because of this, they are trying to attack the console by any means necessary. No one wants to be left out.

[+Swami]

38 minutes ago, JeffVav said:

The original claim "3 billion prefer touchscreens" (for gaming) isn't technically fact. They find it sufficient, particularly for the genres they might play. I'd suggest those who are exclusively mobile gamers are not so because they prefer touchscreens, but because they are casual gamers who didn't feel motivated to buy a dedicated gaming device, and so playing games on the smartphone they already have is sufficient to sate their gaming impulses.

 

 

I think that was tongue-in-cheek, but he has stated on several occasions that casual gamers prefer a controller with a touch screen over joy-sticks and game pads in field testing.

38 minutes ago, JeffVav said:

Anyway, the genre is relevant, particularly because the Amico games shown so far are twitch games, whereas the 3 billion cited are less likely to be playing twitch games (statistically, based on what most mobile games are).

Although, the OOP (Beefy) stated the comment wasn't related to the Amico, so, there ya go.

 

38 minutes ago, JeffVav said:

BTW am I imagining things or do I recall the D-pad can effectively be used as a spinner? Maybe it was just that it had 36 (?) contact points and you could run your finger around the disk to simulate a spinner like behaviour. 

I know it is a 64-way D-pad and a giant button. I think it has been hinted at that is spins, but I think Tommy's been holding back on how it works.

 

38 minutes ago, JeffVav said:

But you don't need to get your claws out at this opinion because...

 

My claws are my razor sharp wit!   😹😻😼😽🙀😾😜

[m-crew]

59 minutes ago, Papy said:

I believe the intent of this thread was to fannboyism and, to some degree, censorship  (I might, of course, be wrong). Having said that, it's clear there are people posting here who have a personal agenda.

 

We know very little about the console and the games on it, so judgments are mostly a reflection of what people want to believe.

 

In my case, I'm not a fan of what video games have become. I still buy a few games. During the Christmas holiday I bought Opus Magnum and Elite Dangerous. However, overall, there is nothing that interests me much anymore. I feel left out. Because of this feeling of being left out, I want to believe Amico will take the market by storm and change the scene. Even if I don't know what I will be getting, I have nothing to lose. Therefore I have a bias to defend and, to some degree, an agenda to promote the console.

 

I'm guessing that people who are satisfied with the current consoles do not want a change of paradigm. If Amico is successful, and if they don't like it, those people have a justified fear of being left out. Because of this, they are trying to attack the console by any means necessary. No one wants to be left out.

Plus It could also be because of Big Ego's and certain personal issues with the people involved with the Amico and console . The what I think is what everyone else thinks attitude no matter what fact's and hard data supporting the Amigo's target market, focus test group and feedback about the games, controllers,spec's of the Amico . Doing something different and outside the box is hard for some to accept. But you know most new initiatives in anything always have issues from people that just don't want to understand or get it. Time will tell if the Amico makes it or not. I'm betting it is and it will take the market by storm. Once the word get's out. We are starting to see that now without even any marketing or advertising. 

 

I believe this thread , had nothing to do with avoiding  fannboyism and, to some degree, censorship.  The last 44 pages proved that. You could see that in the last couple of pages that the tone has changed on some post from what had been happening most of this thread. But once again that's my personal opinion..

[1001lives]

A lot of people have been burned by failed hardware propositions so they are (maybe rightfully so) biased towards any small startups like this. But Tommy Tallarico is not someone to be worry about - he's someone who deserves support and deserves recognition for what he wants to do. It's hard enough to do what he's trying to do.

 

Bottom line, anyone who wants to try something different than the Big 3 deserves some positive reinforcement. 

 

Now... If anyone comes and starts asking you for 300 dollars for a "guaranteed product" on Kickstarter... Then... We need to re-evaluate our thoughts haha. 🤡

Edited February 21, 2020 by 1001lives

[m-crew]

Just now, 1001lives said:

A lot of people have been burned by failed hardware propositions so they are (maybe rightfully so) biased towards any small startups like this. But Tommy Tallarico is not someone to be worry about - he's someone who deserves support and deserves recognition for what he wants to do. It's hard enough to do what he's trying to do. Anyone who wants to try something different than the Big 3 deserves some positive reinforcement. 

 

Now... If anyone comes and starts asking you for 300 dollars for a "guaranteed product" on Kickstarter... Then... We need to re-evaluate our thoughts haha. 🤡

Your may be right on small start up , but the Amico and Tommy is not a small start up. It is backed by some of the biggest people involved in gaming history/ and is getting it's capital from big time investors. So really there is no comparisons to small startups..  This is not a rinkydink start up like some want you to believe.. lol 

[JeffVav]

1 hour ago, Swami said:

casual gamers prefer a controller with a touch screen over joy-sticks and game pads in field testing.

Yeah but that's a subset.

[+Swami]

29 minutes ago, JeffVav said:

Yeah but that's a subset.

Tommy has also said there are 3 billion casual gamers, which seems reasonable given there are over 6 billion people. I'm sure there is some margin of error, though, when you extrapolate field tests to 3 billion people, in how many prefer the touch screen, even though he said the field tests showed casual gamers pick the controller with the touch screen every time. 

 

I do believe we learned that the whole-set (of 3 billion) is technically a subset of the set (of 3 billion), so you may be onto something. 

 

[mr_me]

2 hours ago, JeffVav said:

The original claim "3 billion prefer touchscreens" (for gaming) isn't technically fact. They find it sufficient, particularly for the genres they might play. I'd suggest those who are exclusively mobile gamers are not so because they prefer touchscreens, but because they are casual gamers who didn't feel motivated to buy a dedicated gaming device, and so playing games on the smartphone they already have is sufficient to sate their gaming impulses.
 

Plus it allows them to fill time on the bus, in waiting rooms, etc. To illustrate my point: I'm not currently responding to this post on my phone because I prefer a touchscreen over my keyboard. It's just sufficient and the timing is more convenient at the moment. 
 

Anyway, the genre is relevant, particularly because the Amico games shown so far are twitch games, whereas the 3 billion cited are less likely to be playing twitch games (statistically, based on what most mobile games are).

But you don't need to get your claws out at this opinion because...

 

If Amico only had touch controls I'd be sceptical, but I'd wager most twitch games on Amico are going to use the physical buttons and d-pad as the primary control. So I don't really see the issue. 

And yes you can use touch screens for some twitch games of course, probably most commonly in a trackpad fashion. I could see a skiing game using slides and gestures.

 

The problem with mobile is you basically have no choice but to use a touchscreen no matter what game you're trying to make. Amico has options, so I don't see the issue. The physical D-pad and four (was it?) side buttons are still more than the Atari 2600 had and no one is saying it wasn't good for twitch games. 

And yeah Tommy has been implying some sort of "patent pending" tactile feedback system for touch screen, which would be interesting. 
 

BTW am I imagining things or do I recall the D-pad can effectively be used as a spinner? Maybe it was just that it had 36 (?) contact points and you could run your finger around the disk to simulate a spinner like behaviour. 
 

My only concern about the touchscreen is one that's already been raised: if I switch between the TV and my phone during a commercial, I don't have progressive lenses so have to take off my glasses. It's not something I'd enjoy being forced to do a lot. 
 

Edit: maybe Tommy needs to look into another patent for a lensing system that projects the touchscreen content at a further focal distance.

The Amico controller does have four shoulder buttons but really only two, since two are on the opposite side allowing the controller to be flipped around for right/left handed use.  And one of those buttons will be on the same hand as the disc, leaving only one shoulder button for the other hand.

 

Some may disagree, but with horizontal game controllers the shoulder buttons are secondary to face buttons.  I think the disc and touchpad on the Amico controller will be the primary actions, whether it's a swipe or tap on the touchpad.  We've already been given hints with Night Stalker how the touchpad is used.  And if given a choice with a simple twitch game like Astrosmash, I think people will find that rapid fire is quicker tapping the touchpad than the shoulder button.

 

The disc does spin, but we know that breakout is controlled with a swipe action on the touchpad.  Maybe 64 points is still too low a resolution. Also keep in mind it also has to be pressed so it's not the ideal rotary control. They've described novel ways of using the disc like cracking a safe in Safecracker.

[+Swami]

16 minutes ago, mr_me said:

The Amico controller does have four shoulder buttons but really only two, since two are on the opposite side allowing the controller to be flipped around for right/left handed use.  And one of those buttons will be on the same hand as the disc, leaving only one shoulder button for the other hand.

 

Some may disagree, but with horizontal game controllers the shoulder buttons are secondary to face buttons.  I think the disc and touchpad on the Amico controller will be the primary actions, whether it's a swipe or tap on the touchpad.  We've already been given hints with Night Stalker how the touchpad is used.  And if given a choice with a simple twitch game like Astrosmash, I think people will find that rapid fire is quicker tapping the touchpad than the shoulder button.

 

The disc does spin, but we know that breakout is controlled with a swipe action on the touchpad.  Maybe 64 points is still too low a resolution. Also keep in mind it also has to be pressed so it's not the ideal rotary control. They've described novel ways of using the disc like cracking a safe in Safecracker.

I'm not 100% sure they don't have some rotary encoder in the disk to still be revealed, or maybe in testing now. I have also wondered if some games might use all four buttons separately, such as an option in Trivia games, as it would be more fool-proof against pressing the wrong choice on the screen in some speed competition, but I don't know what they have in mind for those types of games.

[mr_me]

5 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

What is the wrong signal?  Does Nintendo release it's old games on XBOX?

We have zero intention of releasing old games on any other console at this point.  Fine to do it when we didn't have our own console... but now that we do... zero reason to do it.  Especially without a proper controller.

 

I was displeased with every one of those compilations because you can't replicate the controller with a joystick, d-pad, dual analog stick or keyboard or mouse.  No reason to put out inferior products that are practically unplayable just for the sake of licensing.

 

 

 

I think it's totally fair that you keep the old Intellivision games as another Amico exclusive.  However there are lots of intellivision games that play perfectly fine on a playstation/xbox type controller.  Sure games that use the keypad heavily are a problem but lots of games don't.  Even games like night stalker, deadly discs, and AD&D play well on a playstation style controller.  Believe it or not Auto Racing plays well with an 8-way dpad.  There's an example where a hack can help so you can at least start a game without having to grab the second controller.

 

Atgames did a decent job with the flashback.  It could have been better but it's an acceptable intellivision experience at a very low price.  More quality with some more cost might have been better.  And not surprised at all about your position on Atgames; wouldn't have expected otherwise.

Edited February 21, 2020 by mr_me