Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A

12 minutes ago, GrudgeQ said:

I do watch Shark Tank you I totally get the skepticism. I mean nobody really knows how a product will play out in the marketplace, I am using my business experience here but I have been wrong many times in the past too. I will summarize why I think it will sell - consume several salty bags of pretzels before preceding:

 

• Unstated above is the stated Amico marketing budget is north of $10 mil. That isn't huge but if used well could have a meaningful impact on the market if done in a modern way (i.e. Facebook ads and promotion more than traditional media advertisement).

Agree.

 

• Tommy knows a ton of media folks & celebs and I can't image he isn't pulling in favors to get on major radio & TV spots during the launch and endorsements from famous folks. One spot on Good Morning America could move thousands of units - that is why I think Pat is way off base with his 5000 guestimate. The Amico may not make it but geez if they just put 2 Amicos in every Walmart super center and sold them at a firesale loss in a huge disaster - that is still over 5000 units. And you know Walmart isn't just stocking 2 for the holidays! That is why I said "never start a business" he just doesn't know the scale of things.

Mostly agree, however, just getting something into retail is not a guarantee of anything.  Heck, the Atari VCS, which from my perspective looks to be a complete vaporware product or at least far from what was pitched, is available to preorder in an exclusive colorway at both Walmart.com and Gamestop.com.  I would expect it will also be available in their stores at launch.    

• He also is a pretty good spokesman, seems open and genuine to me at least. That rock & roll vibe helps too - Tommy seems cool - like someone you would want to invite to a party. Maybe that will come back to bite him because he isn't 'corporate' enough but don't think people like that anyway.

Nobody doubts that Tommy is likeable and sincere.  I watched him for years on EP and always thought he added a lot.  

• I believe that parents especially are really concerned about things the Amico addresses. I have always been a nerd but the rest of my whole family are just common hill folk, often times religious, who are worried about getting their kids cell phones, consoles and such. Basically that "middle America" that Tommy keeps talking about. They don't understand game consoles, they don't understand computers either, they depend on their kids to help them with electronics and that is like asking the prisoners to guard the walls if you are worried about things like appropriate content. They also mostly aren't rich, plenty of families out there are saving back $75 or $100 per kid for Christmas - a Switch plus games is just a pipe dream, but maybe they can swing an Amico for the family. After all it is "Guaranteed Family Friendly" and games are like $10 - that appeals to a large demographic of people - its a gift that a parent can't screw up on and be a 'bad parent' by getting.

True, but as a parent myself who spends a lot of time with other parents, we are all dealing with technology 24/7 and what it means to keep our kids safe.  While a simple closed system like Amico may appeal to some, you can't really turn back the clock on the fact that many schools actually lend kids a tablet now (indeed it's part of the curriculum) and many (possibly even most) kids have access to computers, tablets and smartphones already on a daily basis.  I would be just as worried as a parent about giving my kids something that they or their peers might think is old fashioned as my kids have mocked plenty of my retro consoles and games over the years.    

• Mentioned it above - but price. Look at Mexico, South America, Asia, Eastern Europe - price matters to those folks - A LOT. A Switch Lite is $200 (US, a lot of places have high import taxes) BUT you have to buy a game too - probably $40 to $60 on top of that - man that ads up quick. You get 3 or 4 Switch (or XBox or PS whatever) games and you have spent a lot of money for a lot of folks. Got multiple kids? Well just multiply that total by the number of kids.

Agree in part, but we are still a year away from launch and there is a good chance Switch gets a price cut before then, maybe even this holiday season.  A regular Switch at $200 versus Amico at $150-$200 is going to be a tough comparison that probably comes down in favor of the Switch, especially given how popular it already is with a lot of kids and families.  Also, Switch has tons of digital multiplayer co-op games that start at a few dollars and go up from there.  Sure, the kids also want Mario Kart and other $50-$60 games, but the base Switch comes with the capability for two kids to play at once and I know my kids like to play together on the Switch and haven't asked for multiple units at this point.

• I think Tommy is spending a lot of time with us Retro Heads right now as part of their messaging shakedown cruise and we are getting some features and a few nods (Tommy is one of us after all) - and it is cool just to be in on a early product launch - but unless you read Family Magazine or watch "The Chew" or QVC or are on the "Parenting 101" Facebook group you won't be seeing much directly about the Amico during next summer. We are not the primary market - just a little secondary market - one which gets more attention from Tommy's heart rather than his head is my guess. Not to say we aren't important just the tail and not the dog.

I disagree here.  I know Tommy wants the mass market, but at the end of the day, the features and quirks of Amico make it something that will appeal most heavily to retro gamers.  I'm not saying that couldn't change, but I think it's a hard sell for anyone outside of retro gaming in a world where there are already so many platforms to play inexpensive and simple games, especially with technology many people already own like smartphones, tablets, Apple TV, computers, your Tesla, etc...

• The lean into big box retails. Big box retailers can help a LOT with marketing, placement and promotion. When Tommy described their retailer margins, exclusives, in store accessory/software sales and small box size (shelf friendly) and also how the Amico fits into big retailer's desires - the first thing I though of was "End Cap!". An "End Cap" is the small display at the end of those long shelves in Walmart. An end cap on a main aisle is like gold - people pay big money for those - unless you get preferential treatment by the retailer for free. It just takes one buyer from Target or Walmart or Tesco or whatever to say "man I think this is hot and a money maker for us this Holiday" and suddenly you are at the top 1/3 of the electronics section of the flyer with those XBoxes and PS5 down below (they don't need promotion anyway and we don't make crap from them) with big bold words "100% Family Friendly Game Guarantee", "5 Free Games", "2 Controllers or Play For Free On Your Cell Phone", "No Game Over $10" and "$179.99". Homemaker Helen strolling down Target doesn't know a console from a hole but she does know Mary and Tom are getting a little older now and keep borrowing her cell phone to play Plants vs Zombies all the time and worse fighting over it. Hey they both can play with this and it's safe and cheap says the sign above the Amico display. A sale is made and I can see that playing out again and again.

A decade ago, maybe.  Today, the gaming sections of major retailers like Target and Walmart are mostly dead.  Sure, kids still drag their parents through to get them to buy a new game every once in a while, but I rarely see a casual shopper come through those sections.  Even if your fictitious (and I would argue non-existent) Homemaker Helen rolls through the right section at Target, I don't know how likely she would be to buy a $150-$200 piece of hardware she knows nothing about.  Remember, you can buy a cheap non-Apple tablet for under $100 and even the iPad has a $250 model available at Walmart and Target.  Even the parents I know who are the strictest about technology for their kids have given in and allowed their kids to have a tablet (albeit with monitoring/safety apps and restrictions on how long they can use it).  If the Switch drops to $200 next year, I think it's going to be all that much more difficult as Nintendo is a well known brand and Intellivision or Amico is definitely not outside of a much older generation and retro gamers.  

 

You raise some interesting points.  My responses are above.

Just now, ASalvaro said:

You get the Amico on QVC and it will fly off the shelves 

I think so too - that long sales format would be a killer for them. Ten, 20, 30 minute spot with Tommy showing off the console features, getting the host to play along with some games, throw some bundled exclusive for QVC (bonus game, console color, etc.). Talking about an American company bringing back families playing games together again with 100% family friendly content (lets face it - wrapping yourself in family & country is always a good go to position). Pretty much the same for those morning shows - I think Tommy can demo the heck out of this thing.

OK I don't want to offend but I think it needs to be said - reality is reality. Tommy is a pretty good looking, charismatic middle age guy and is marketing on these shows to primarily middle aged hetrosexual women - and that does help. I know, it probably shouldn't help in a perfect world - but it does in this one.

44 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

You raise some interesting points.  My responses are above.

All good points, I mean I am assuming that Amico gets into retail in a big way if they don't - well one giant leg of my argument is gone.

Undeniably Nintendo is seen as the 'goto brand' for families and you notice how they always show clearly solo play in a big group like everyone is having fun watching some dude actually do something fun (always irks me a bit but I am sure is effective marketing). A price cut on the Switch would hurt but Nintendo is usually very price steady - and those game prices. Personally I think the Lite is their big move there for several years. Definitely a danger point potentially though.

I understand what you mean about technology being everywhere but I don't think parents like it (it was an issue for me - and I supposedly understand this stuff). I think they settle for bad options. I mean VTech and Leapfrog exist specifically to market to parents (in this case with even younger children) to have something relatively safe and inexpensive to give to their kids. The reason is that it is a foolproof choice for parent. Sure you can get a cheap tablet, figure it out, load some excellent learning apps from the tons of stuff in the store after tons of research, lock it down, and end up with the same thing - just doesn't happen much in real life - Little Johny just gets a LeapPad. Even worse after you get them something they have their noses glued to it and then you have to limit them somehow. At least the Amico has the potential to encourage social behavior. As a parent that would be a big deal to me - plus maybe I could play too and get some of that quality Dad time in - because I always worried about that too. I think there is a market for this. Much like Nickelodeon exists as a cable network - inexpensive, safe, great for kids, watchable by families together too in the living room.

I hardly think big box retail is dead - Walmart did over 500 billion and that is twice Amazon. They aren't at their heyday but give me a Walmart success any day and I will be more than happy. IE doesn't have to sell 100 million, not even 10, not even 1 million units - to be a success - although I know Tommy would be personally disappointed. Sure moms don't wonder over to electronics often most of the year - wait until Christmas. The rest of the year who knows, maybe Dad would go to electronics and pick up one too. Maybe as a toy for himself and call it a 'family' purchase - I have never done that personally - never.

I don't really agree at all with your position that this appeals to retro gamers primarily. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I think it does some but I think IE designed the Amico to be a broad consumer item - maybe that will be their downfall in the end (too broad a focus) but I don't really see a strong, exclusive "Amico/Retro" link.

I do respect everything you say and you could be 100% right - only time will tell.

Not to take away from anybody's logic, business sense or arguments here, but...

You all know Shark Tank is fake for maximum dramatic impact, right?

7 minutes ago, Blarneo said:

Not to take away from anybody's logic, business sense or arguments here, but...

 

You all know Shark Tank is fake for maximum dramatic impact, right?

Of course, but the general outlines of their analysis in a lot of instances is pretty sound.  I mean early in my career I worked closely with a lot of start-ups and VCs and frankly, I saw my share of electronics companies that managed to raise substantial rounds and then never actually sold much in the way of physical products.  Plenty of electronic products have made it into Target and Walmart only to be liquidated or returned to the distributor or manufacturer.   

8 minutes ago, Blarneo said:

Not to take away from anybody's logic, business sense or arguments here, but...

 

You all know Shark Tank is fake for maximum dramatic impact, right?

What?!? Next you are going to tell me Santa and the Easter Bunny is fake too - I personally believe everything I see on Reality TV!

I am sick of all of this negativity here - I am going to go watch some pro wrestling  

1 hour ago, GrudgeQ said:

All good points, I mean I am assuming that Amico gets into retail in a big way if they don't - well one giant leg of my argument is gone.

 

Undeniably Nintendo is seen as the 'goto brand' for families and you notice how they always show clearly solo play in a big group like everyone is having fun watching some dude actually do something fun (always irks me a bit but I am sure is effective marketing). A price cut on the Switch would hurt but Nintendo is usually very price steady - and those game prices. Personally I think the Lite is their big move there for several years. Definitely a danger point potentially though.

I just don't think that what someone enjoys can be categorized into one particular way of doing things.  I know my wife and I love watching our kids play video games and really have no interest in playing with them most of the time, despite both of us growing up as gamers.  I know their grandparents feel the same way.  Heck, I remember growing up and spending hours in arcades watching other people play and it felt just as fun to me as actually playing myself.  Regardless, Nintendo has pushed developers to make local co-op play a priority and there are literally dozens and dozens of games on the eShop and at retail where that is a prominent feature.  You might be right, but Nintendo is three years into the cycle now and I can definitely see some holiday price cutting or at least some very aggressive bundling in the near future.     

1 hour ago, GrudgeQ said:

I understand what you mean about technology being everywhere but I don't think parents like it (it was an issue for me - and I supposedly understand this stuff). I think they settle for bad options. I mean VTech and Leapfrog exist specifically to market to parents (in this case with even younger children) to have something relatively safe and inexpensive to give to their kids. The reason is that it is a foolproof choice for parent. Sure you can get a cheap tablet, figure it out, load some excellent learning apps from the tons of stuff in the store after tons of research, lock it down, and end up with the same thing - just doesn't happen much in real life - Little Johny just gets a LeapPad. Even worse after you get them something they have their noses glued to it and then you have to limit them somehow. At least the Amico has the potential to encourage social behavior. As a parent that would be a big deal to me - plus maybe I could play too and get some of that quality Dad time in - because I always worried about that too. I think there is a market for this. Much like Nickelodeon exists as a cable network - inexpensive, safe, great for kids, watchable by families together too in the living room.

I think you are underestimating how many other products are out there in this same space and how many of those products are actually pretty good.  Also, I don't know that I would prefer to have my kids glued to a television playing Amico versus huddled around a tablet like they do now.  It's kind of the same thing from my perspective.  My kids have a ton of technology, but like most of their friends, they play outdoor team sports and go to lots of social activities that don't involve screen time.  I know sometimes people who haven't been parents in this generation think that today's kids are just screen addicts with no social interaction, but that couldn't be further from the truth.  Heck, my kids spend far less time in front of a screen then I did as a kid and they sure have fuller social lives.       

1 hour ago, GrudgeQ said:

I hardly think big box retail is dead - Walmart did over 500 billion and that is twice Amazon. They aren't at their heyday but give me a Walmart success any day and I will be more than happy. IE doesn't have to sell 100 million, not even 10, not even 1 million units - to be a success - although I know Tommy would be personally disappointed. Sure moms don't wonder over to electronics often most of the year - wait until Christmas. The rest of the year who knows, maybe Dad would go to electronics and pick up one too. Maybe as a toy for himself and call it a 'family' purchase - I have never done that personally - never.

Big box retail is not dead for a lot of things where being physically present is preferred (i.e., buying clothing, food, items you need immediately, etc...), but it is not the goto for electronics anymore and certainly not for software.  My kids, like most of their friends, know how to use Amazon and love nothing more than getting an Amazon gift card from their grandparents and going on a shopping spree via tablet.  While they will occasionally ask to go to Target or the grocery store, it's mostly because they think they can talk me into buying them candy and not to buy electronics.  

1 hour ago, GrudgeQ said:

I don't really agree at all with your position that this appeals to retro gamers primarily. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I think it does some but I think IE designed the Amico to be a broad consumer item - maybe that will be their downfall in the end (too broad a focus) but I don't really see a strong, exclusive "Amico/Retro" link.

 

I do respect everything you say and you could be 100% right - only time will tell.

I also respect your opinion and agree that we'll all just have to wait and see where this goes.

2 hours ago, GrudgeQ said:

I think so too - that long sales format would be a killer for them. Ten, 20, 30 minute spot with Tommy showing off the console features, getting the host to play along with some games, throw some bundled exclusive for QVC (bonus game, console color, etc.). Talking about an American company bringing back families playing games together again with 100% family friendly content (lets face it - wrapping yourself in family & country is always a good go to position). Pretty much the same for those morning shows - I think Tommy can demo the heck out of this thing.

 

OK I don't want to offend but I think it needs to be said - reality is reality. Tommy is a pretty good looking, charismatic middle age guy and is marketing on these shows to primarily middle aged hetrosexual women - and that does help. I know, it probably shouldn't help in a perfect world - but it does in this one.

occasionally i'll turn on QVC when they have electronics and even stuff i know is not good they are selling like crazy and your right Tommy is very well spoken and the Amico would be huge on QVC...it must be hard to get on there tho 

I remember QVC selling Genesis Shaq Fu one time & I guess it was a hit with them. 

Even if that piece of EA crap can sell on QVC, then the idio... I mean smart consumers who watch it will buy a good system too. 😉

1 hour ago, GrudgeQ said:

What?!? Next you are going to tell me Santa and the Easter Bunny is fake too - I personally believe everything I see on Reality TV!

  

I am sick of all of this negativity here - I am going to go watch some pro wrestling  

Watch out! Or the Tooth Fairy will hit you with her purse!🤣

I’m excited to get to the marketing campaign because I’ve always thought that the marketing and games will be what sales this system.

Given the types of games announced reimagined classics, sports, original IPs, board/card/puzzle/trivia. As well as the games shown, and the licensing deals they have been working on which we know includes among other things multiple Disney properties, and a quality control system in place. I feel very confident that the games will be very fun to play.

I don’t know what the marketing for Amico will be obviously but Tommy mentioned having celebrity endorsements which could help. Despite the unknown in the marketing plan given those involved in that marketing helped to launch every Nintendo system from SNES through Wii and the DS I feel like that team deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to formulating a marketing plan

6 minutes ago, Blarneo said:

I remember QVC selling Genesis Shaq Fu one time & I guess it was a hit with them. 

Even if that piece of EA crap can sell on QVC, then the idio... I mean smart consumers who watch it will buy a good system too. 😉

I never knew they hawked Genesis Shaq Fu at one time! Man there was a day when you couldn't even go to your local Shaqmart and buy some ShaqChips without stepping over some ShaqCola that had spilled into the aisle. At least it felt that way - that guy licensed everything there for a little while.

4 hours ago, GrudgeQ said:

OK I don't want to offend but I think it needs to be said - reality is reality. Tommy is a pretty good looking, charismatic middle age guy and is marketing on these shows to primarily middle aged hetrosexual women - and that does help. I know, it probably shouldn't help in a perfect world - but it does in this one.

So... Tommy's new marketing strategy should be him shirtless on the cover of a Harlequin romance novel titled "Renegade Amico".

4 hours ago, bojay1997 said:

just getting something into retail is not a guarantee of anything.

What makes you believe Intellivision will just get the console in retail stores and then cross their fingers? What makes you believe Intellivision won't do an  aggressive marketing campaign? Of course, even the best marketing campaign does not guarantee success, but when I try to find flaws in the project, I must admit that I don't see any (at least from what I see). If I wanted to launch a new console myself, there's nothing I would do differently.

4 hours ago, bojay1997 said:

kids have access to computers, tablets and smartphones already on a daily basis.

I'm a black sheep, I don't have kids, but my sister and pretty much all of my friends have kids. I can tell you that kids are never satisfied with what they have. They always want something new.

For example, my niece is 8 years old. She has an iPad (even if I think it's dumb, it was mandatory for school), a smartphone (even if I think a child her age should not have a smartphone), and a computer, mainly to play Roblox. Her mother also still has her Wii (even though I don't know if she still plays with it).

Last month, after a comment I made here describing how I bought an X-Box 360 with a Kinect only for the game Dance Central, I decided to bring my old X-Box 360 to my mother's place. My niece and her friend were confused by the menu system of Dance Central (I was there to help them), but I can assure you that neither of them told me that they already have their iPad and therefore didn't need to play with this new system. They both eagerly played with this "new" thing.

4 hours ago, bojay1997 said:

Agree in part, but we are still a year away from launch and there is a good chance Switch gets a price cut before then, maybe even this holiday season. A regular Switch at $200 versus Amico at $150-$200 is going to be a tough comparison that probably comes down in favor of the Switch, especially given how popular it already is with a lot of kids and families.

I don't think the Intellivision's Amico is a direct competitor to the Switch. I'm not aware of any of my friends who play Switch games with their kids. In my case, I know my mother (who is 69) won't be able to play any Switch games.

I just had a conversation with someone who said the same thing as you. His point was that Nintendo's Switch already has "a lot" of multiplayer games for children, so there is no place for Intellivision's Amico. As an example, he used the game Overcooked. This game is well done (yeah, I did that on purpose), but it is far too frantic for my mother (or the vast majority of casual gamer). She will never be able to play that game. Because kids learn so fast they could play Overcooked, but the regular 40-year-old mother who plays only casual games on her phone or tablet will give up almost immediately.

Speaking of Team 17, a few years ago I made my mother try to play Worms. I wanted a game to play with her and I thought it could be good. Unfortunately, the game was already too complicated for her. Games like Overcooked or Worms looks like fun and simple games, but they really are not. They are really not "casual gamer level".

To me, the Switch is a kid's console, not a family console. I view Nintendo's Switch as a console for parents who want their children to play together and to stop bothering them. Based on what Tommy said, this is not the targeted market for his console. I believe Intellivision's Amico will be for parents who want to play with their children, not parents who want their children to play together.

4 hours ago, bojay1997 said:

I disagree here.  I know Tommy wants the mass market, but at the end of the day, the features and quirks of Amico make it something that will appeal most heavily to retro gamers.

I don't view the Intellivision's Amico as a retro console and I don't think people who are only interested in playing old games will find Amico games appealing.

I am a retro gamer. One comment I made here was that I was a purist. I like to play old games as they were. For me, remakes of Moon Patrol, Missile Command or Asteroids with new graphics do not interest me at all. I play those games on MAME. For some games, like Defender, I even do special control panels to be as close as to the originals.

However, I now understand that Amico games won't be remakes, but new games using old IP and some old gameplay elements. As I'm not just a retro gamer, I'm now interested to see those games precisely because they are not "retro games" per se.

As a retro gamer myself, the idea that Amico is for retro gamers is weird. I'm pretty sure pure retro gamers, the ones that only want to play with old games as they were, won't have much interest in Amico games. Pure retro gamers will continue to play games on old hardware or on emulators.

4 hours ago, bojay1997 said:

Today, the gaming sections of major retailers like Target and Walmart are mostly dead.

The gaming sections of major retailers are filled with products for hardcore gamers, and hardcore gamers don't shop at major retailers. It's not surprising those sections are mostly dead. To me, Intellivision's Amico might end up being something very interesting for major retailers as it's a product made for their customers.

4 hours ago, bojay1997 said:

Remember, you can buy a cheap non-Apple tablet for under $100 and even the iPad has a $250 model available at Walmart and Target.

display.

Tablets are not competitors to Intellivision's Amico. Saying people won't buy an Amico console because they can buy a tablet is akin to people who said that tablet will never sell because people already have a smartphone.

32 minutes ago, Lathe26 said:

So... Tommy's new marketing strategy should be him shirtless on the cover of a Harlequin romance novel titled "Renegade Amico".

On a horse. Shirtless on a horse!

49 minutes ago, Papy said:

 

What makes you believe Intellivision will just get the console in retail stores and then cross their fingers? What makes you believe Intellivision won't do an  aggressive marketing campaign? Of course, even the best marketing campaign does not guarantee success, but when I try to find flaws in the project, I must admit that I don't see any (at least from what I see). If I wanted to launch a new console myself, there's nothing I would do differently.

My point was that just getting in does not move units.  Even marketing like crazy won't move units if the market doesn't want something.  If there is a flaw in the Amico plan from my perspective, it's simply that it has identified a specific audience that is not inclined to buy its product and it's entering a market that is very crowded and has lots of alternatives, many of which people already own that can do a lot of the same things well.

49 minutes ago, Papy said:

I'm a black sheep, I don't have kids, but my sister and pretty much all of my friends have kids. I can tell you that kids are never satisfied with what they have. They always want something new.

 

For example, my niece is 8 years old. She has an iPad (even if I think it's dumb, it was mandatory for school), a smartphone (even if I think a child her age should not have a smartphone), and a computer, mainly to play Roblox. Her mother also still has her Wii (even though I don't know if she still plays with it).

 

Last month, after a comment I made here describing how I bought an X-Box 360 with a Kinect only for the game Dance Central, I decided to bring my old X-Box 360 to my mother's place. My niece and her friend were confused by the menu system of Dance Central (I was there to help them), but I can assure you that neither of them told me that they already have their iPad and therefore didn't need to play with this new system. They both eagerly played with this "new" thing.

 

I don't think the Intellivision's Amico is a direct competitor to the Switch. I'm not aware of any of my friends who play Switch games with their kids. In my case, I know my mother (who is 69) won't be able to play any Switch games.

Yes and no.  My kids have never asked for less capable technology, but you're right that they are very aware of the newest things out there.  As for Switch being a direct competitor, of course it is.  Switch has really become a grass roots success with a segment of the market (i.e. kids and families) that Microsoft and Sony have largely walked away from.  Also, there are many, many slower paced Switch games available on the eShop, including games in very traditional genres like trivia, board games and card games.  I think part of the issue is that a lot of people on this thread just aren't super familiar with just how broad the digital Switch library has become in a very short amount of time.  

49 minutes ago, Papy said:

I just had a conversation with someone who said the same thing as you. His point was that Nintendo's Switch already has "a lot" of multiplayer games for children, so there is no place for Intellivision's Amico. As an example, he used the game Overcooked. This game is well done (yeah, I did that on purpose), but it is far too frantic for my mother (or the vast majority of casual gamer). She will never be able to play that game. Because kids learn so fast they could play Overcooked, but the regular 40-year-old mother who plays only casual games on her phone or tablet will give up almost immediately.

 

Speaking of Team 17, a few years ago I made my mother try to play Worms. I wanted a game to play with her and I thought it could be good. Unfortunately, the game was already too complicated for her. Games like Overcooked or Worms looks like fun and simple games, but they really are not. They are really not "casual gamer level".

 

To me, the Switch is a kid's console, not a family console. I view Nintendo's Switch as a console for parents who want their children to play together and to stop bothering them. Based on what Tommy said, this is not the targeted market for his console. I believe Intellivision's Amico will be for parents who want to play with their children, not parents who want their children to play together.

I actually know many other parents who play video games with their kids on the Switch.  I'm a little older than those parents, but they definitely are out there.  

49 minutes ago, Papy said:

I don't view the Intellivision's Amico as a retro console and I don't think people who are only interested in playing old games will find Amico games appealing.

 

I am a retro gamer. One comment I made here was that I was a purist. I like to play old games as they were. For me, remakes of Moon Patrol, Missile Command or Asteroids with new graphics do not interest me at all. I play those games on MAME. For some games, like Defender, I even do special control panels to be as close as to the originals.

 

However, I now understand that Amico games won't be remakes, but new games using old IP and some old gameplay elements. As I'm not just a retro gamer, I'm now interested to see those games precisely because they are not "retro games" per se.

 

As a retro gamer myself, the idea that Amico is for retro gamers is weird. I'm pretty sure pure retro gamers, the ones that only want to play with old games as they were, won't have much interest in Amico games. Pure retro gamers will continue to play games on old hardware or on emulators.

 

The gaming sections of major retailers are filled with products for hardcore gamers, and hardcore gamers don't shop at major retailers. It's not surprising those sections are mostly dead. To me, Intellivision's Amico might end up being something very interesting for major retailers as it's a product made for their customers.

 

Tablets are not competitors to Intellivision's Amico. Saying people won't buy an Amico console because they can buy a tablet is akin to people who said that tablet will never sell because people already have a smartphone.

When I use the phrase "retro", I am describing a play style that is easy to learn and relies on patterns and simple gameplay mechanics.  Everything I have seen in the trailers for Amico seems to fit that pattern.  Having said that, I'm not sure that is what the casual audience is really looking for or more importantly, something they can't get elsewhere.  I'm interested, but I also was really into all those classic game remakes in the late 90s.    

Gaming sections at Target and Walmart have a variety of gaming products.  Sure, they have consoles, but they also have home arcades and plug and plays and handhelds and things for hardcore gamers and very casual gamers and nostalgia gamers.  Amico is really not much different than a lot of what is already in those stores, so I won't be surprised when those stores agree to carry Amico.    

As for tablets, of course they are competitors to Amico, just as the Switch and every other gaming product including board games are a competitor.  People don't have infinite financial resources and they often will not buy something that doesn't provide any advantages over what they already have.  I don't recall people saying tablets wouldn't sell just because people have smartphones, although if you look at the data, as smartphone screen sizes and capabilities have grown, that is what has happened in recent years.  Tablets generaly have an advantage in screen size and often memory and processing power.  Importantly, many households already have tablets, there are hundreds of thousands of games available for them and they can be played by multiple people together at once.  I even have several friends who do a weekly family game night and then often play board games on tablets with their kids.  The point is, it's a tough market and even if everything goes perfectly, it's possible that the market won't demand what it is that is being supplied by Amico.  Personally, I'm very interested, but I am worried that by swinging for the fences rather than the easy niche market, the longevity and ability of this thing to continue getting new games may be fairly limited.            

4 hours ago, Papy said:

On a horse. Shirtless on a horse!

And holding an Amico - because you got to stay on brand!

Fire those Nintendo people Tommy - we got your marketing covered

35 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

If there is a flaw in the Amico plan from my perspective, it's simply that it has identified a specific audience that is not inclined to buy its product and it's entering a market that is very crowded and has lots of alternatives, many of which people already own that can do a lot of the same things well.

What makes you think this specific audience is not inclined to buy its product? I agree parents who are not hardcore gamers and who want to play with their kids are not inclined, right now, to buy a console, but, from my point of view, that's because Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo do not target them.

As for saying the market is "very crowded," it really depends on how you define this market. The reason I'm interested in this console is because I want something to be able to play with my niece and my mother. But there is nothing for that on the market. Sony and Microsoft certainly don't offer a product for that. Nintendo targets kids, but not older people nor casual gamers. Tablets are good only to play alone. The reality is there is currently no product for me on the market to fulfill my need. From my point of view, the market is not "crowded" at all, it's a desert.

Your argument is a Switch is good enough for me. Well, I can tell you that it's not. As I said, there is pretty much no Switch game that my mother could play. Could I play some Switch games with my niece? Even if I'll have to seriously hold back while playing (some Switch games have a catch up mechanism, but since they are somewhat hidden, they are not enough to allow my niece to have a chance to win), since I'm a hardcore gamer, I could indeed play with my niece. Could I play with my sister? Since she did play video games in the past, probably. However, there is no way my mother could play with us. The Switch is not for the whole family. That's why Nintendo is not an option for me.

You say there are "many, many" slower paced Switch games. Like what? Give me ten (not shitty) games that my mother, my niece and I could all play together. As I said, a game like Worms was already too complicated for my mother. By the way, no 3D games. My mother, like a lot of casual gamers, is confused by 3D movements. Maybe you think it's weird, but that's the case. Another requirement is the game should have a handicapping system to make sure I don't crush everyone.

Anyway, this is irrelevant. Even if there are some hidden gems in the eShop, do you really think I will buy game after game simply to find that one gem? I don't want to become a game journalist who reviews games, I just want to play them. Curating games is a very important part of the console for me. Nintendo doesn't really do that. Again, the Switch does not fulfill my need.

Tablets are also not an option for me. Not only playing action games without a physical controller is generally a really bad experience, but tablet games are solo games. That's why I'm interested in buying an Amico console even if I already have a tablet.

As for board games, since I'm someone who likes social gaming, I have about 30 of them (physical board games, not video games). I did buy a few software board games and card games on my tablet, but I only play them when I'm alone or, in the case of board games, so I can try them before I buy the real board game. I do think it's important for Intellivision to have board games and card games, but I certainly won't play board games or card games with my mother and my niece on a console. Saying there are board games and card games on the Switch is not an argument for me.

Now I agree with you, (physical) board games are competitors to Amico. However, board games have several flaws.

First, they are not cheap. My board game collection probably cost me over $1,000.

Second, although there are a few quick board games, on average, with set up and the tidying up, it can easily go over an hour. It's even worse when playing with people who are not familiar with them. I've seen games of Ticket to Ride that were almost two hours long because people kept "thinking". The problem with this is that each person has a different taste. If a game takes only 10 minutes, that's not bad. People compromise and they say we play the game that you like and after that we play the game that I like. But when a game is over an hour, compromises are harder to reach.

Third, many children are now accustomed being overstimulated. They need flashy things, something that board games do not provide. It's not uncommon for some kids to lose focus. When that happens, it often results with the kid dropping out of the game.

Fourth, even if some board games have a catch up mechanism, it doesn't change that my 8-year-old niece and my 69-year-old mother have pretty much zero chance against me. It's true that when I play with them I don't try to win, but it's not an ideal scenario. (One of the reasons why I think Amico will be a success is because of the "Karma engine".)

Oh, and one last thing, playing board games with children is always kind of "dangerous" for the board game. And yes, I speak from experience. Even if I sleeve all my cards, it's still easy for a kid to destroy pieces or to drop his glass of orange juice on the board.

So although I agree board games are competitors to the console, I do think Amico will have some serious advantages.

-

So that's my situation. I don't want a console so my niece can play with her friends, I don't want a console so I can play with other hardcore gamers, I want a video game console that will allow my niece, my mother, my sister and I to all play together. Can I get that elsewhere? No. No product can fulfill my need. The Switch doesn't fulfill my need. Tablets don't fulfill my needs. That's why I'm on this forum. So now the only question is how many people are like me? Am I a weirdo or am I just a normal older guy? If I'm a weirdo, then Intellivision will fail. If I'm a regular guy, then Intellivision will probably win its bet.

35 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

Gaming sections at Target and Walmart have a variety of gaming products.  Sure, they have consoles, but they also have home arcades and plug and plays and handhelds and things for hardcore gamers and very casual gamers and nostalgia gamers.

None of those are for casual gamers. Right now, the only thing for casual gamers are tablet, phones and computers... and those three are centered around solo gaming or Internet gaming. What is worse for Wal-Mart is that tablets and phones don't have physical games. If Intellivision can make their physical games attractive enough so a good number of people end up buying the physical version instead of the digital version, then I believe Wal-Mart and Target will love and promote that console.

35 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

The point is, it's a tough market and even if everything goes perfectly, it's possible that the market won't demand what it is that is being supplied by Amico.    

Is is of course possible. However, this is a pessimistic view, not a neutral one.

On 9/11/2019 at 1:29 PM, ASalvaro said:

about 2 months ago i was watching Fox business and i was surprised to see the Atari CEO on the Stuart Varney show

and Stuart seemed pretty excited talking about it and i was thinking how cool it would be for Tommy to be on that show

talking about the Amico..notice all the questions that Stuart had were right up the Amico's alley 

 

 

 

 

Hi!,

The difference is that Atari is a publicly traded company.  So there is more interest right now just due to that fact.  That being said... we'll get on there eventually as well.  We haven't gone after stuff like that as there is no upside for us at this point as we are 13 months from market.  Come the end of next summer or slightly after launch... I'll be doing a lot of things like this.

Note:  I've been featured and interviewed on FOX Business News for Video Games Live in the past. 

 

Hi Tommy !

I know old Intellivision games will be available in bundles for a few dollars.

But will they all be available for purchase at day 1 ?

For those of us who believe in Amico and his team, is there a way to invest money for your product (or company) ?

Thank you, have a nice day.

On 9/11/2019 at 9:53 PM, IntellivisionDude said:

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Holy Crap!  I'm gonna have fun with this around the office today. 

p.s.  Atari VCS doesn't have Moon Patrol. 

On 9/11/2019 at 10:22 PM, CMR said:

Where can I get a MIGA hat?

HERE!

A few of the folks on the team have said that in the past and one of our programmers did this beauty in Photoshop a few days ago.

Hahaha! 

Hey Tommy, do you think being an American company can help the Amico sales in the USA? Perhaps this can be pointed out in the campaigns with some humor.

A great discussion going on between Bojay, Grudge & Papy.  Intelligent folks having a respectful conversation with different points of view.  Love this!  Also very interesting for me to understand what Bojay's concerns are knowing that we have answers and data for all of his concerns.  Some I can share publicly and others I can't.  Really great discussion and happy to answer some of the concerns. 

My responses are not in any way meant to be confrontational to anyone.  Sometimes when I give data to counter-point, it may be read as negative or trying to show someone up.  As you saw with Pat & Ian's fragile yet pompous egos.  So I just wanted to preface my explanations as not combative in any way shape or form.

Because there are a number of different back and forths... I'm just going to pull out the ones that I feel I can provide better information for.
 

Quote

Bojay said:
Do you ever watch Shark Tank by chance?  I mean this is literally the recurring fallacy that always prevents the sharks from investing in a business. 

Actually... that isn't exactly correct.  Grudge mentioned that there are approximately 42 million young parents in the U.S. & Europe.  Those numbers are very important and vital for a "Go To Market Strategy".  Any investor and VC will tell you that.  And there are a lot of times on Shark Tank where the sharks will ask what in your CAC (Customer Acquisition Cost).  In order to know that number you must have a grasp on the "lowest hanging fruit" in your strategy.  The example you are talking about here is when someone says.  "The video game industry was a 140 Billion dollar industry in 2018... and if we can get 1% of that market... then our gross will be $1.4 Billion!"

THAT is what the Sharks call up as a big red flag!  And that wasn't what was said.  The reason that is a red flag to investors is because that means that you HAVEN'T done your Go To Market Strategy.  If you did... you wouldn't be relying on what the rest of the market is doing that you're trying to enter.  We have an absolutely incredible GTMS which is why we are so highly regarded in the investment world. 

The thing to remember is that we are raising 10's of millions of dollars by people who invest for a living.  And although everything is a "risk" to some extent... they certainly don't just guess on things like GTMS's and whether or not they personal think it could sink or swim.  I can't begin to tell you how many hours we spend a week for the past year taking all the hardest questions by some of the smartest financial folks in the world.  And we always pass with flying colors and show them the info and data they want.  Not for nothing... but remember back in March I won the highly coveted and prestigious TIF Investors Award.  250 start-up companies apply.  On 8 companies make it to the stage to pitch 850 investors for 10 minutes each.  After much grilling, those 850 investors then vote on who they thought has the best idea, plan, presentation and success rate.  I won this year.  This is no easy task.  And I couldn't have done it if I didn't have my team of highly successful financial folks around me.  My CFO (Nick) and also the 2009 Porsche Cup Champion! Sold his last company for $150M.  The company before that around $50M.  David Perry raised $50M for his Gaikai cloud gaming platform and sold it to Sony for $380M.  These folks have been down this path their entire careers.  Our Investment Bankers and agents and business attorney's and financial advisors all do this for a living.  If anyone thinks it's just me in a room making up some spreadsheets... nothing could be farther from the truth.  We have Triple A Rockstars all around us.  Just take a look at who our Business Attorney's are.  They represent over 75% of ALL Fortune 100 companies as well as presidents of the United States:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan,_Lewis_%26_Bockius

Bottom line... please don't have fears about our marketing, our financing our distribution our manufacturing pipeline, etc.  We have it covered by some of the best folks in the world who very much know what they're doing and have been incredible and important to our success so far.

 

Quote

Bojay said:
Do I believe that a product of this type is going to become a mass market success?  No, I think it will be a niche product that appeals to retro gamers and the people they introduce it to like friends and family members.

I appreciate your honesty.  The market research and focus testing and retailers say the opposite.  So although this may be your personal opinion... it does not line up with the majority of folks who study this stuff for a living and the people who have been shown the product.

I understand this is your current feeling right now (and that you are truly rooting for us!)... but I would just say that until anyone plays the system... no one is informed enough to be saying that the system is going to be a success or not.  At the end of the day... it will be about the games and experience.  And we have boatloads of both. 

 

Quote

Bojay said: 
I was wrong about the Nintendo Switch and the Nintendo Wii having mass appeal, so I"m prepared for the possibility that I could be wrong here as well.  I just remain skeptical that there is some massive untapped group of people that would be playing games (or returning to gaming again) if they just had a specific piece of hardware with unusual controllers, an option to use a smartphone as a controller and a library made up exclusively of family friendly multi-player games inspired by classic games, only with enhanced gameplay and graphics. 

Well... it makes me feel a little better knowing you were wrong about those other consoles as well. 

Totally fine for you to be skeptical.  I get it.  But there IS a massive untapped group of people who do NOT enjoy giving their kids mobile phones, tablets or Nintendo Switches and who DO want to play with their kids.  Also... the description of the machine is only 25% of the software (multiplayer games inspired by classic games)... I didn't show a fraction of the incredible things we have in that video.  You are missing 75% of the software and experience.  Also... the way the games are played with our "unique" controller is a new experience for everyone.  Until you play it... it can't really be judged and lumped in or described as just a system that plays family friendly multi-plyaer retro games.  It's so much more than that and I realize that until you see it and play it...  you can't make that judgement.  So please just hang in there until you get your hands on it.