Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A

Amico is already confirmed to have some games that thread the hardcore angle (R-Type?  Some other shooter/side scroller.  I gather an "easy" mode is sufficient to get casual gamers to play but let's not kid ourselves, Granny isn't about to pilot the R-9A Arrowhead, not every genre is for everyone.

Anyway my comment isn't to be taken as a negative, just wondering if there is space for a gem of a game that maybe sidesteps the existing rules.  I'm not expecting a 3D open world style platformer to be appearing anytime soon

17 hours ago, GrudgeQ said:

Tommy has referred to these a few times, but in a new Smash JT video he included a shot of the "Intellivision 10 Commandments of Game Design". He may have used this shot in an earlier video but I just noticed it in this one.

 

BTW this video deals with "he who shall not be named" and I am sticking with a no-comment policy here and I hope you do too. Link provided only as a reference to source.

 

I’m not really understanding why some of you are having issues with the open world games rule Tommy has said since the first interviews that once you get into test type of environment it creates issues with casual players. But it doesn’t mean their won’t be great action or platform games there are tons of those that feel like an experience but aren’t open world. Super Mario 3, Castlevania, Rygar.

On 9/20/2019 at 8:39 AM, GrudgeQ said:

First good luck on any Ellen related activities, my wife loves her so that would grease the way when my Amico order shows up at the door 😉

 

Won't ask about your visit but are you just double finger gunning the sign or trying to hold back the full reveal of the final controller design?

I was actually trying to hide the "old" button placement as it was one of our E3 prototypes. 

 

20 hours ago, cmart604 said:

I just love the fact that someone who genuinely loves the Intellivision is in charge of preserving the name and ensuring it has a future and I'm here for it. 👍🏻

Thanks!  That statement really means a lot to me.

19 hours ago, Papy said:

If you have a solution to the problem of a lack of tactile feedback, then Amico will indeed be a game changer. Not just for family gaming, but for video games in general.

We do!

18 hours ago, GrudgeQ said:

Tommy has referred to these a few times, but in a new Smash JT video he included a shot of the "Intellivision 10 Commandments of Game Design". He may have used this shot in an earlier video but I just noticed it in this one.

 

BTW this video deals with "he who shall not be named" and I am sticking with a no-comment policy here and I hope you do too. Link provided only as a reference to source.

 

I'm surprised no one here grabbed a shot of the Master Component IN THE BOX!!!

Me & Steve Roney believe there are only 2 in existence... and we have them both at Intellivision!

Not sure though.  Wondering if anyone else has seen or heard of someone having a Master Component in a box?

I must say, that was an interesting SmashJT video.  I'm glad he likes the console after playing it.  He could have hated it.  He's not the type of person who would just carry water for us because he got a car ride.  Remember... he was totally against it when he first heard about it.  It was only after watching my unlisted response video and heard me invite them to my place that he reached out.   I'm glad folks are paying attention and the truth of the matter is getting out there.

 

17 hours ago, Blarneo said:

Very good rules to have. I'm glad the first one was changed. 

 

#1 I am the Lord, Thy Tommy! Thou shalt have no other Tommy before me... in line at Wendy's.

PR and Human Resources made me change it. 

17 hours ago, Loafer said:

#7 I don’t agree with but all others are super fine.  For #7, this would exclude Mario 64 type of games.  There’s nothing inherently difficult or complicated with Mario 64, but I gather two issues could come up:

 

- the controller could make it difficult to control the camera which is important in that type of game.

- how do we Incorporate couch multiplayer in a game like that?

 

Ie not excluding because of genre but because of possible technical issues? Also let’s say the above is correct, if someone comes up with a free roaming 3D game that does not conflict with the rest of the 10 intv commandments with no technical limitations, are exceptions possible?

Hi!,

The main reason for that one is the control intimidation factor.  Non-gamers and casual gamers just don't like open world 3D games and controls.  And I think maybe that we would all agree that to an extent... in regards to 1st person controls... that a mouse and keyboard is MUCH better!  I remember the first time I played a 1st person controlled game on a console controller.  I absolutely HATED it.  I think over time... we've all just gotten used to it.  But I believe most people probably prefer mouse & keyboard if given a choice.  I could be wrong.

Anyway... the last thing we want to do is have the majority of our community feel intimidated.  I honestly don't know a single non-gamer or casual gamer that enjoys an open world 1st person experience.  In order to properly do it... the controls and the controller would need to change and be much different.  From a personal perspective, I honestly hated the controls of Mario 64.  I also felt myself struggling or fighting them in certain situations.

I totally understand and respect your opinion on this.  But for me... I just think the controls wouldn't work well with our controllers.  If a developer comes to us with an amazing free roaming 3D experience that works amazing on our controller then I'd definitely be willing to take a look.

The other major factor in the 3D open world design is that our chip isn't designed to handle it.  We knew we weren't interested in doing these types of games so we went in a direction where we didn't need to utilize things like on the fly real time shaders, 5.1 audio, etc. 

So my decision was based on controls and chip capability. 

Hope that helps folks understand why made #7.

13 hours ago, GrudgeQ said:

I doubt it has anything to do with technical issues, the dogfight plane game showed the system is very capable of 3d and I am sure it has any console of that era well beat on specs. The controllers are not geared toward it but I am sure you could wedge a Mario 64 esque game onto the controls if you tried. However “wedge onto it” already is a bad sign for non gamers.

 

Mario 64 controller layout isn’t substantially different from Hitman or Doom at its core, the camera is just mapped to buttons instead of a joystick - simpler but not really simple.

 

I also agree with the prior comments that the core issue is the complexity of open 3d world usually requires a free floating camera for the player. I think for many this is just a bridge too far and is what is keeping a lot of people from gaming. Sure you can do a follow camera or something but those usually only work well part of the time and you still have to deal with the full 3d world. Something like a Crash Bandicoot with its fixed camera and a 3d world - but on rails - is probably what rule 7 is designed to limit you to.

It's definitely tech based as well.  The Bi-Planes game in the trailer (okay... yeah... I just confirmed it!) is a 2.5D game.  Bi-Planes in Triple Action was too good not to have it's own game this time around! 

You can get away with a lot in regards to the backgrounds and lighting when things are baked in and/or the camera locked down. in 2.5D.  We could never compete with Sony, Microsoft & Nintendo in regards to doing 3D on-the-fly real time lighting.  It's not what our chip is designed to do and is a main reason why we're able to offer the entire system under $200.

We are leaning on old school programming tricks and mentality to create things.  The developers LOVE IT!  And the newer ones who never had to deal with machine limitations are learning a lot and loving it as well.  We have an amazing programming and developer support community that help each other out.  And we also provide one of the best Optimizing Programmers ON THE PLANET!!!  Worked at Microsoft for over 16 years and was the person who optimized franchises such as Halo and Ori & the Blind forest.  Working with us now because of our vision.  Amazing!!

 

10 hours ago, Blarneo said:

Hey Tommy! 

I'm curious what your thoughts are on Apple Arcade that just got launched.They're enacting a couple of platform rules that you focus on, like no in app purchases or loot boxes & a limited, curated library. They also claim many exclusive games (from Sega and Capcom too) Hopefully you get Sega & Capcom to make a few games for Amico.

 

Just wondering what you think of it. It's not the same as just the app store, which I originally thought it was.

Great question.  We had a big internal discussion about this in the office this week.

Curated titles, no in-app purchasing, priced well and exclusives are a GREAT idea! 

The big differences with us is that with Apple Arcade you need a fast Apple device.  Well... that just took out a vast majority of the people on the planet.  Me for example... I've never owned an Apple product in my life.  So I'm unable to play it. 

The other things are the ease of use of controls.  Most of the games are touch screen based unless you buy a $60 - $80 PS or Xbox blue-tooth controller (which is complicated) so all of the games are limited to touch controls... and if you want to play games on your Apple TV... good luck using THAT controller. 

The majority of our games are much easier to pick up and play and will appeal with more non-gamers.  It seems like most of the games they are offering are sophisticated casual games. Which is exactly who the Apple audience is so it makes total sense. They all look great and I'm sure are fun and play great. However I don't see the average non-gamer getting these types of games.  I could be wrong, but I feel these are all games for folks who are 25 - 55 years old and who are upper to middle class Apple users.  I don't see the average middle America Walmart shopper getting into this. 

Having motion control on a controller and a big screen in front of you is STILL the best way to play Bowling, Cornhole, Darts, Shuffleboard, Board games, etc.

Another big difference is the lack of real couch co-op.  Apple is very limited in what they can do.  Remember... we have a centralized screen and everyone else has screens and tactile controls as well. 
 

9 hours ago, Papy said:

Super Mario 64 has camera issues, but that's not the reason many people would not be able to play the game. Many people really have difficulties controlling their characters in a 3D environment. Even if the game has no camera issue at all, they still won't be able to play the game simply because the 3D environment is confusing to them.

 

I tried for more than 20 years to find games that my mother could play on her computer. As far as I remember, the only 3D game she was able to play was Carmageddon (with a wheel). She wasn't good at it, but she certainly had a lot of fun with it. I tried several other 3D games, either FPP games like Portal or TPP games like Beyond Good and Evil and she was not able to play with them. (Maybe she could be able to play a 3D game like Legend of Grimrock, but I didn't try it because that game is really too nerdy.)

 

To me, a family-oriented game does not simply mean a game without violence and without "mature" elements, it's a game the whole family can play. This is not the case for a game like Super Mario 64 simply because of its 3D environment. You can qualify Super Mario 64 as a kid's game, but not as a family-oriented game.

 

Maybe after Amico is well established among casual gamers, Intellivision could create a special label for more "advanced" games, maybe at that moment the rule #7 could be removed, but I don't think it would be a good idea to do this at launch.

I agree 100% with all your statements.  And yes... we definitely don't want to veer off our main target at launch.  Maybe down the road once the console and what it is has been established we could open it up a little for something special.  I just don't see it happening based on what I know about the controller design and our CPU.  Willing to have an open mind in the future though.

8 hours ago, mr_me said:

The no "3D world" rule mght have to do with avoiding comparison to big budget games on other systems.

That is another good reason to avoid it.  We would never be able to compare in tech and graphics with what the others are already doing.  Best to stay in our lane and create amazing content with what our goals are.

3 hours ago, Loafer said:

Amico is already confirmed to have some games that thread the hardcore angle (R-Type?  Some other shooter/side scroller.  I gather an "easy" mode is sufficient to get casual gamers to play but let's not kid ourselves, Granny isn't about to pilot the R-9A Arrowhead, not every genre is for everyone.

 

Anyway my comment isn't to be taken as a negative, just wondering if there is space for a gem of a game that maybe sidesteps the existing rules.  I'm not expecting a 3D open world style platformer to be appearing anytime soon

I agree.  We definitely have some more "hardcore" type of games.  I would classify Night Stalker as one.

Definitely space for one if someone makes something awesome and its easy and fun to play.  I didn't take your question or comments as negative... it's a nice observation and question which sparks more dialogue.  Love it!

Can games offer different difficulty modes? Easy for casuals and Hard for us who want a challenge? Some Intellivision games had that. 

5 hours ago, Loafer said:

Amico is already confirmed to have some games that thread the hardcore angle (R-Type?  Some other shooter/side scroller.  I gather an "easy" mode is sufficient to get casual gamers to play but let's not kid ourselves, Granny isn't about to pilot the R-9A Arrowhead, not every genre is for everyone.

  

Anyway my comment isn't to be taken as a negative, just wondering if there is space for a gem of a game that maybe sidesteps the existing rules.  I'm not expecting a 3D open world style platformer to be appearing anytime soon

R-Type is for me. My favorite game of all time. And also one of the most criticized for being too hard. IREM were sometimes diabolical. 

13 hours ago, Blarneo said:

Hey Tommy! 

I'm curious what your thoughts are on Apple Arcade that just got launched.They're enacting a couple of platform rules that you focus on, like no in app purchases or loot boxes & a limited, curated library. They also claim many exclusive games (from Sega and Capcom too) Hopefully you get Sega & Capcom to make a few games for Amico.

 

Just wondering what you think of it. It's not the same as just the app store, which I originally thought it was.

With Apple Arcade and the Playdate it seems that executives are figuring out some of the pain points for gamers and are targeting them. Curated libraries (both), exclusives (both kinda, mostly Playdate), fun over cutting edge (Playdate), low cost games (both, kinda - actually subscriptions which add up a lot over time and limit choice on how the money is spent), no in app purchases, loot boxes or ads (both) and new control schemes that games are custom designed for (Paydate). This seems to be good validation of the Amico slant on the video game industry - because they have all of that and much more with family friendly games, couch coop, even more specialized controllers, specialized hardware such as interactive lighting, cross family style games, fitness, etc. No one has really put *all* of these elements into one package before the Amico. The only element I can think of that Amico doesn't offer is mobile gaming of course.

On a side note: One question on Apple Arcade is how long are the games going to stay? I wonder if part of the whole 'low cost' thing is get people into Dodo Peak or something and then it gets removed in a month or two - prompting you to buy the game. Win win for Apple and I guess not too bad for the consumer if you consider it a trial but I wonder if this is part of strategy behind this move?

2 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

The other things are the ease of use of controls.  Most of the games are touch screen based unless you buy a $60 - $80 PS or Xbox blue-tooth controller (which is complicated) so all of the games are limited to touch controls... and if you want to play games on your Apple TV... good luck using THAT controller. 

I'm also curious, considering Apple's penchant for unique industrial design, why they didn't design their own controller for the service & either pack it in with AppleTV or as an accessory. IOS games on ATV are horrible because of that tiny remote control.

29 minutes ago, GrudgeQ said:

One question on Apple Arcade is how long are the games going to stay? I wonder if part of the whole 'low cost' thing is get people into Dodo Peak or something and then it gets removed in a month or two - prompting you to buy the game.

I'm wondering the same thing. One thing though... Their new Frogger looks amazing.

Quote

Me for example... I've never owned an Apple product in my life.  So I'm unable to play it. 

U-huh. Right. You have a Ferrari. I think you can take out a HELOC for a $150 AppleTV. 

3 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

We are leaning on old school programming tricks and mentality to create things.  The developers LOVE IT!  And the newer ones who never had to deal with machine limitations are learning a lot and loving it as well.

I can certainly understand why they love it. My first programs were on an Odyssey 2 with the "Computer Intro!" cartridge. Trying to fit anything within only 100 bytes certainly made optimization essential... and it was fun!

After that, I did make a few games in BASIC on my school's computers, but I felt something was lost. It's only when I got my C128, programming again in assembly and counting cycles, that I really had fun again. Even when I bought my Amiga, I still insisted on programming in assembly. I always felt programming in C, not caring about cycles and letting the compiler do the "optimization" was less fun.

When assembly died (that is when programming in assembly became an anachronism), I pretty much stopped programming for fun. Even at work, being told that it was not necessary to optimize my programs, being told that people would just buy a more powerful computer, made programming something mundane for me. This is in part why I chose to quit being a professional programmer. I still do some web programming from time to time to help my clients (mainly to correct bugs from other sh*tty programmers), but I don't find this really fun.

So yes, I have no difficulty believing the developers love it.

Quick question : Once Amico is well established, let's say in 2022, is there a chance that Intellivision will open Amico and allow non-developers to make homebrew games on it? Who knows, I might have fun reliving my youth again!

Edit : Just so I'm not misinterpreted, I totally understand why Intellivision would not open Amico, so it's not something I expect.

1 hour ago, Papy said:

I can certainly understand why they love it. My first programs were on an Odyssey 2 with the "Computer Intro!" cartridge. Trying to fit anything within only 100 bytes certainly made optimization essential... and it was fun!

 

After that, I did make a few games in BASIC on my school's computers, but I felt something was lost. It's only when I got my C128, programming again in assembly and counting cycles, that I really had fun again. Even when I bought my Amiga, I still insisted on programming in assembly. I always felt programming in C, not caring about cycles and letting the compiler do the "optimization" was less fun.

 

When assembly died (that is when programming in assembly became an anachronism), I pretty much stopped programming for fun. Even at work, being told that it was not necessary to optimize my programs, being told that people would just buy a more powerful computer, made programming something mundane for me. This is in part why I chose to quit being a professional programmer. I still do some web programming from time to time to help my clients (mainly to correct bugs from other sh*tty programmers), but I don't find this really fun.

 

So yes, I have no difficulty believing the developers love it.

 

Quick question : Once Amico is well established, let's say in 2022, is there a chance that Intellivision will open Amico and allow non-developers to make homebrew games on it? Who knows, I might have fun reliving my youth again!

 

Edit : Just so I'm not misinterpreted, I totally understand why Intellivision would not open Amico, so it's not something I expect.

Who knows maybe after playing some Amico games you have an inspiration and contact them with a game idea and you get hired to develop said idea into a game on Amico.  I know that won’t be me never learned to program but it could happen for you 

4 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Bi-Planes in Triple Action was too good not to have it's own game this time around! 

... and if you don't know what he means, check out this epic Bi-Planes Tournament, recorded for posterity at Mattel Electronics on August 6, 1982:

51 minutes ago, Papy said:

I can certainly understand why they love it. My first programs were on an Odyssey 2 with the "Computer Intro!" cartridge. Trying to fit anything within only 100 bytes certainly made optimization essential... and it was fun!

 

After that, I did make a few games in BASIC on my school's computers, but I felt something was lost. It's only when I got my C128, programming again in assembly and counting cycles, that I really had fun again. Even when I bought my Amiga, I still insisted on programming in assembly. I always felt programming in C, not caring about cycles and letting the compiler do the "optimization" was less fun.

 

When assembly died (that is when programming in assembly became an anachronism), I pretty much stopped programming for fun. Even at work, being told that it was not necessary to optimize my programs, being told that people would just buy a more powerful computer, made programming something mundane for me. This is in part why I chose to quit being a professional programmer. I still do some web programming from time to time to help my clients (mainly to correct bugs from other sh*tty programmers), but I don't find this really fun.

 

So yes, I have no difficulty believing the developers love it.

 

Quick question : Once Amico is well established, let's say in 2022, is there a chance that Intellivision will open Amico and allow non-developers to make homebrew games on it? Who knows, I might have fun reliving my youth again!

 

Edit : Just so I'm not misinterpreted, I totally understand why Intellivision would not open Amico, so it's not something I expect.

I had a similar experience back in the days when even sometimes every bit (much less byte) counted. Half of the challenge was just to make the darn thing fit! BTW my first computer was an Ohio Scientific C4P - so fellow old timer here.

This is lost on younger developers sometimes however. I recently had an interesting Twitter "debate" on if most Amico developers used Unity how could it the Amico be "optimized for 2d". Had to point out that 1) you can buy/make libraries for Unity to do specialized tasks like 2d (or RPG creation, etc. - there are thousands of them) and 2) the Amico having fixed hardware & and a focus on 2d/2.5d was the perfect example of when to build specialized libraries 3) horror beyond horror, Unity with it's 3d focus isn't the best optimized code for 2d (nor really any coding - Unity is never your most efficient code).

Ever single game development engine/language adds a layer of inefficiency and un-optimized code. Of course the benefit is reduced coding time, integrated tools, etc. So the trick is to know when to just stick with say Unity (the menus are often a 'duh' example) and when to try to optimize your code in Unity, C, assembler, etc (like your core game loop). Sure if you have a super simple game and it will be running on a modern PC - who cares about optimization. For anyone else, especially if you have to 'port to survive' to the mobile market, you had better learn some optimization or hire a specialist. And your right, learning optimization is rewarding on it's own - you get a real sense of accomplishment.

+1 on a game development system for the Amico eventually. A full homebrew dev kit would be great. If that isn't in the works even a simplified environment as a learning system for children/curious adults would be nice too. Maybe they could only be shared with people on your 'friends list' to limit any issues with un family friendly content being distributed.

Also how about a "Tommy's Rhythm Machine" game/learning tool - where you could combine beats & tracks and share them with friends? If only someone at Intellivision Entertainment knew something about music

26 minutes ago, GrudgeQ said:

I had a similar experience back in the days when even sometimes every bit (much less byte) counted. Half of the challenge was just to make the darn thing fit! BTW my first computer was an Ohio Scientific C4P - so fellow old timer here.

 

This is lost on younger developers sometimes however. I recently had an interesting Twitter "debate" on if most Amico developers used Unity how could it the Amico be "optimized for 2d". Had to point out that 1) you can buy/make libraries for Unity to do specialized tasks like 2d (or RPG creation, etc. - there are thousands of them) and 2) the Amico having fixed hardware & and a focus on 2d/2.5d was the perfect example of when to build specialized libraries 3) horror beyond horror, Unity with it's 3d focus isn't the best optimized code for 2d (nor really any coding - Unity is never your most efficient code).

 

Ever single game development engine/language adds a layer of inefficiency and un-optimized code. Of course the benefit is reduced coding time, integrated tools, etc. So the trick is to know when to just stick with say Unity (the menus are often a 'duh' example) and when to try to optimize your code in Unity, C, assembler, etc (like your core game loop). Sure if you have a super simple game and it will be running on a modern PC - who cares about optimization. For anyone else, especially if you have to 'port to survive' to the mobile market, you had better learn some optimization or hire a specialist. And your right, learning optimization is rewarding on it's own - you get a real sense of accomplishment.

 

+1 on a game development system for the Amico eventually. A full homebrew dev kit would be great. If that isn't in the works even a simplified environment as a learning system for children/curious adults would be nice too. Maybe they could only be shared with people on your 'friends list' to limit any issues with un family friendly content being distributed.

 

Also how about a "Tommy's Rhythm Machine" game/learning tool - where you could combine beats & tracks and share them with friends? If only someone at Intellivision Entertainment knew something about music

I remember Tommy mentioning a few times they were considering holding game development contests with different age groups using a game that teaches programming as a base for it and possibly Turing the winners in each group into games others could buy for the system don’t know if that made it past talks but worthy bringing up in this context I think 

2 hours ago, Alpha82 said:

Who knows maybe after playing some Amico games you have an inspiration and contact them with a game idea and you get hired to develop said idea into a game on Amico.  I know that won’t be me never learned to program but it could happen for you 

Inspiration is not that hard. For example, I remember that after reading the novel Les Foumis from Bernard Werber (in English it is called Empire of the Ants), I had fun making a small prototype where I was pouring sugar on a battlefield to direct my ant colony to fight another colony (at least that was the idea). Think of a super simplistic RTS where your only control is to use a limited quantity of "attractors" to indirectly control the movement of your army (the individual ant movement decision was dependent upon those attractors, pheromone left by other ants, and randomness). It didn't go far beyond an initial pathfinding mechanism, but with a lot of work, I could have turned this initial idea into a full game.

I certainly can make a homebrew game with one of the many ideas that I get just by looking around, but making a commercial game is not about making a game for yourself, it's about making a game for other people. It's about understanding what other people want to play. Unfortunately, that's an art I do not possess. Even with a lot of work, even if I end up with a game that I like, I will probably be the only one who will like it and my game will be a flop.

Making a good game is a lot more difficult than what people think. Having ideas and knowing how to program are not enough.

4 hours ago, Papy said:

When assembly died

It didn't, I still use it on the PS4 and XB1, as well as the Switch.  People who know how to use it properly, are dying out.

3 minutes ago, Papy said:

Inspiration is not that hard. For example, I remember that after reading the novel Les Foumis from Bernard Werber (in English it is called Empire of the Ants), I had fun making a small prototype where I was pouring sugar on a battlefield to direct my ant colony to fight another colony (at least that was the idea). Think of a super simplistic RTS where your only control is to use a limited quantity of "attractors" to indirectly control the movement of your army (the individual ant movement decision was dependent upon those attractors, pheromone left by other ants, and randomness). It didn't go far beyond an initial pathfinding mechanism, but with a lot of work, I could have turned this initial idea into a full game.

 

I certainly can make a homebrew game with one of the many ideas that I get just by looking around, but making a commercial game is not about making a game for yourself, it's about making a game for other people. It's about understanding what other people want to play. Unfortunately, that's an art I do not possess. Even with a lot of work, even if I end up with a game that I like, I will probably be the only one who will like it and my game will be a flop.

 

Making a good game is a lot more difficult than what people think. Having ideas and knowing how to program are not enough.

Maybe not but if Intellivision decides to do their programming game they were talking about early on and a game contest you could enter your would have your game on your system regardless of if it got picked up or not.  I know appealing to large groups isn’t easy but you have programming background and have made games and programs before where I have never programmed anything and for that matter never saw anything that made me think gee that would make an interesting game so you are much ahead of me.