Independent Amico Discussion Thread

[SegaSnatcher]

3 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Yeah, but wouldn't that also mean they've been hearing about the Switch and stuff too? And really until these two threads I've never heard of Nintendo as an active adult system so I feel like with everything E3 isn't going to have the reach to the intended masses.

 

It will be good for us and other gamers who don't know much or want to know more. But casuals not sure on that.

Definitely, there is no doubt there will be strong competition this year.   Thats what I mean by "noise", only so much gaming info people will be able to take in at once.  I'm extremely interested to see what Amico's marketing strategy will turn out. 

[cvga]

2 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Guess it could depend on who is buying what too. If they can sell them to the stores that takes some of that burden too. Meaning it would be on Walmart or Target, etc. to worry about moving them while IE has the money from the stores.

I would think that a smaller company with a new product like this would have to promise to buy back unsold inventory in order to get on the shelves at a Target or Walmart.

[MrBeefy]

6 minutes ago, cvga said:

I would think that a smaller company with a new product like this would have to promise to buy back unsold inventory in order to get on the shelves at a Target or Walmart.

🤷‍♂️ Don't know but those aren't the only places selling either. I've seen Arcade 1ups at Target go on clearance to below $80 so maybe, maybe not.

[+Tommy Tallarico]

7 hours ago, 1001lives said:

My mom loves farkle, haven't seen a single ad for that on those systems. But I bet that will be on prominent display for board games/etc. with Amico. Especially shaking the dice and tossing them on the screen. That's not an Xbox or PS4 thing. 

 

You're mom is gonna LOVE us!  Please tell her to expect Farkle on launch day!  

 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

3 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

I didn't think the original ones looked cheap. But I guess I haven't seen any of them in action to tell the difference. I kind of see it like the Wiimote vs the Wiimote MotionPlus (only that was an added funtion).

 

If the gameplay is the same fun it won't matter as much and I thought the idea wasn't to stare at the small screen all the time anyways.

 

The difference between the 2 screens is the accuracy and feel.  Literally 10 times better and more smooth.  And... the screen quality (colors, brightness, pixels, etc.) looked a lot better as well.  It was an easy decision once we saw the 2 of them side-by-side.  Anyone in here would have made the same decision I think.

 

 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

2 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Definitely, there is no doubt there will be strong competition this year.   Thats what I mean by "noise", only so much gaming info people will be able to take in at once.  I'm extremely interested to see what Amico's marketing strategy will turn out. 

The places we'll be advertising and marketing won't have any other next gen gaming "noise".  Trust me. 

 

Sony, Microsoft & Nintendo don't actively advertise to the same people we will be.  Some of the incredible partnerships we have in place have NEVER been done before in the video game industry and they are VERY significant and ground breaking.

All will be revealed in the late summer and early fall.

 

 

[JeffVav]

Hmm, just thinking... The concerns about adult content on Switch are a curious paradox from a marketing perspective, when you think about it:

 

For someone truly clueless about gaming, I expect they wouldn't know about the adult content and think Nintendo is all Mario and Zelda, if they knew anything about it at all. 

For someone who did know, they'd probably be in-tune enough with gaming to avoid it and know where to find kid-friendly content. 
 

It almost feels like, to leverage this particular selling point, Amico's ad campaign is going to have to "educate" their market on the "dangers" of just giving your kid a Nintendo instead. I don't think it's common knowledge. 
 

(Even then, I'm not sure how practical the concern is, since, even if the parent didn't know how to operate the parental lockouts, they're probably still not going to leave the online purchase mechanism wide open.)

---

 

On an entirely different note (but still Switch related), the "Joy-Con rot" debacle is definitely something you wouldn't want to repeat on a new emerging platform, so taking care to make sure your controllers are quality out of the gate seems prudent. 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

1 hour ago, JeffVav said:

Hmm, just thinking... The concerns about adult content on Switch are a curious paradox from a marketing perspective, when you think about it:

 

For someone truly clueless about gaming, I expect they wouldn't know about the adult content and think Nintendo is all Mario and Zelda, if they knew anything about it at all. 

For someone who did know, they'd probably be in-tune enough with gaming to avoid it and know where to find kid-friendly content. 
 

It almost feels like, to leverage this particular selling point, Amico's ad campaign is going to have to "educate" their market on the "dangers" of just giving your kid a Nintendo instead. I don't think it's common knowledge. 
 

(Even then, I'm not sure how practical the concern is, since, even if the parent didn't know how to operate the parental lockouts, they're probably still not going to leave the online purchase mechanism wide open.)

---

 

On an entirely different note (but still Switch related), the "Joy-Con rot" debacle is definitely something you wouldn't want to repeat on a new emerging platform, so taking care to make sure your controllers are quality out of the gate seems prudent. 

Our marketing plan would never be to disparage others.  It also wouldn't be to educate folks on what others do or don't do.  The only reason this stuff comes up now is because game journalists, YouTubers, interviewers, message board question askers & naysayers, etc. sometimes bring it up in their dialogue ("Why would anyone want an Amico when Nintendo already provides everything you're already talking about" or "Nintendo is already the family machine and there is no way you can ever compete with them in the family market").  No one has ever heard me bring up the Nintendo violence thing out of the blue.  But when folks declare that Nintendo is already the "family friendly" machine and we have no place in the market... then I need to start dropping facts.  (Interesting that no one has pushed back and continues to call my a liar since I posted that Wall Street Journal article or Switch pic of the little girls in 69 position).  

 

We have a LOT of positives to focus on in our marketing to families and casual gamers... which includes proudly declaring that we are the most family friendly home console in the market and that we don't allow violent, mature, bad language or sexual content.  We can proudly declare that EVERY game is Simple, Affordable, Curated, Exclusive and playable for anyone.... no matter what your skill level.  We can proudly declare that we have no in-app purchasing, loot boxes, in-app advertising, chargeable DLC and that all our games (in digital format) are $9.99 or less.  No other game console offers all of that and those are all super important things that are high priority items for the 93.3% of all gamers in the world that don't play on home consoles (mostly... because of the opposite of what we're offering).  We feel these facts alone make a very compelling argument to non-gaming and casual folks around the world.  Again... the 93.3% of the 3 Billion gamers who play games but NOT on the big 3 consoles.

 

---

 

Yes!  Totally agree with you on the controller thing.  You rightfully mentioned the Joy-Con, and also... look at what happened to Ouya... they were DOA because of the cheap controllers.  The controllers are the single most important part of any game console.  If they feel cheap or don't feel silky smooth... then it doesn't matter how good the games are or how cool (or not) the console looks or how much power it has.
 

[JeffVav]

3 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

But when folks declare that Nintendo is already the "family friendly" machine and we have no place in the market... then I need to start dropping facts.

See that's the problem I'm getting at. Nintendo has that enduring reputation, rightly or wrongly, and it doesn't really seem possible to clear up this very common "misconception" without going down the "well, actually..." path. 

Serious question: I see the console as a gateway to this content, for sure, and a walled garden for those that want that security, but what about simultaneously making the games available for other platforms too? It's not unprecedented. Microsoft and Sony both allow otherwise-exclusive content on platforms they see as non-competitive. Really if the goal is to position Amico as the only brand fulfilling this family-friendly niche, reaching a broader audience should increase the brand's visibility and might even direct consumers to the hardware. (e.g. some parent buys an Amico game for their PS5. Kid falls in love with it and wants to hog the PS5 all the time, so parent buys them their own Amico to get time on his/her PS5 again.  Ok, sounds like I'm joking but I'm actually serious that there could be a synergy between the console and the content on other venues too. If control is the issue it's not out of the question to make Amico style control peripherals for other platforms.) Plus it's well known that hardware is not as profitable as software, so you'd be amortising your investment more. 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

13 minutes ago, JeffVav said:

See that's the problem I'm getting at. Nintendo has that enduring reputation, rightly or wrongly, and it doesn't really seem possible to clear up this very common "misconception" without going down the "well, actually..." path. 

Serious question: I see the console as a gateway to this content, for sure, and a walled garden for those that want that security, but what about simultaneously making the games available for other platforms too? It's not unprecedented. Microsoft and Sony both allow otherwise-exclusive content on platforms they see as non-competitive. Really if the goal is to position Amico as the only brand fulfilling this family-friendly niche, reaching a broader audience should increase the brand's visibility and might even direct consumers to the hardware. (e.g. some parent buys an Amico game for their PS5. Kid falls in love with it and wants to hog the PS5 all the time, so parent buys them their own Amico to get time on his/her PS5 again.  Ok, sounds like I'm joking but I'm actually serious that there could be a synergy between the console and the content on other venues too. If control is the issue it's not out of the question to make Amico style control peripherals for other platforms.) Plus it's well known that hardware is not as profitable as software, so you'd be amortising your investment more. 

But it also can't be ignored... because it's a fact.  Again... it's only mentioned in interviews (and actually it's pretty rare) when people push back and say that Nintendo is the family friendly machine so there is no place for us in the market.

 

For your serious question... the answer is:  Because none of the games we are making can be played on any other platforms.  I tried to respectfully explain this to Pat on Twitter and he didn't take too kindly to it. 

 

It's not just the controllers either (although that is a big part of it)... but it's a whole bunch of stuff that we haven't even announced yet as well (so its understandable why folks may think that way... I get it).

You mention that it's well known that hardware is not as profitable as software.  For the big 3... that is definitely the case.  Not for us initially.  We have a really unique and interesting business model that has never been attempted in the industry.  We feel it's revolutionary... but time will tell.

Thanks for the respectful dialogue. 
 

[roots.genoa]

2 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

 

The difference between the 2 screens is the accuracy and feel.  Literally 10 times better and more smooth.  And... the screen quality (colors, brightness, pixels, etc.) looked a lot better as well.  It was an easy decision once we saw the 2 of them side-by-side.  Anyone in here would have made the same decision I think.

I'm not questioning your decision but it reminds me of the Game Boy. It was a big success because they stick with a monochrome screen but Gunpei Yokoi explained that everybody would have of course picked a color screen if they were given the choice. Sometimes you have to give people what they need, not what they want.

Of course I'm not really comparing both situations since color screens were a lot more expensive and energy consuming at the time. But I really like this anecdote.

[SegaSnatcher]

3 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

The places we'll be advertising and marketing won't have any other next gen gaming "noise".  Trust me. 

 

Sony, Microsoft & Nintendo don't actively advertise to the same people we will be.  Some of the incredible partnerships we have in place have NEVER been done before in the video game industry and they are VERY significant and ground breaking.

All will be revealed in the late summer and early fall.

 

 

I'm being serious when I ask this, but have you considered selling on the QVC channel?  That seems like a great place to get the interest of the Moms out there.

[+Tommy Tallarico]

30 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I'm being serious when I ask this, but have you considered selling on the QVC channel?  That seems like a great place to get the interest of the Moms out there.

Yep!  In the works. 

 

[+Razzie.P]

2 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

(Interesting that no one has pushed back and continues to call my a liar since I posted that Wall Street Journal article or Switch pic of the little girls in 69 position).  

 

I thought they all got booted from the threads.  Hard to compete in the pissing contest when you're not allowed in the bathroom.

 

I like to think they still shake a fist at the screen and yell "liar!" occasionaly to help them beat back the boredom.  😂

[spoonman]

19 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

 

Yes... Smash Bros is a great couch co-op game... but is grandma playing it?  No.  Has the Switch reached the same heights as the Wii?  No.  Only about half at this point and is not seen as a non-gamer hyper casual system (although their are some games on the system like that).

It's the "controllers" that make most of the couch co-op games non-starters for non-gamers on the other current machines.  

 

I'm not sure I understand the point.  Yes.  For a family of 4 to play a couch co-op game for the PS5 will easily be in the $800 range.

PS5 - $500 + tax = $550
3 extra controls @ $60 each + tax = $200
purchase of game = $60 + tax.

 

Total spent:  Over $800.

 

So I'm not sure why this would be considered a controversial statement at all.  Just pointing out the numbers and the difference between the PS5 and Amico.  With Amico you can play 8 at a time right out of the box for around $250.  Less than 1/3 of the price to do the same on the PS5.  Not everyone in the world can afford $800+ to play casual couch co-op video games.
 

Well, I didn't really have Super Smash Bros. in mind for grannies, but I'm guessing they'd be more into that than say Earthworm Jim 3 w/ a spinning disc controller.

 

I thought you were also targeting kids for the Amico demographic. I've been trying to get my younger family members interested in my retro games for years now. I have an entire room full of thousands of games and hundreds of systems. All I hear is "ewwww. what is this PONG?" and I say YES.. Now shut up and play ya brat! OK, maybe I don't say that, but you get my point. Kids aren't often into a simplistic looking/playing games, aside from maybe Minecraft, but that's because there is so much other stuff going on (I.E. LEGO brick building, crafting, community), or if their on their phones and it's something quick to play. When it comes to the 55" living room TV they want high tech and flashy.

 

-- --  (sorry I'm on a tablet and can't properly divide your quoted reply) -- --

 

The PS5 is $500? Did you (Tommy) just leak something here?

I'm still saying it'll be either $399.99 or $450 MSRP. Sony has learned their lesson with the PS3 launch and Mark Cerny has said gamers will be very pleased with the PS5 price despite it's features. They are fine with taking a loss on the hardware, which will be made up on software.

 

Why are PS5 systems even being compared when the PS4 and Switch are still very much current systems, and will have plenty of releases for years to come. Not to mention the PS4 is many times more powerful than the Amico, so let's compare that instead of the PS5...

PS4 console...................$250 ($200 during sales) vs Amico.. $220?

Dual Shock 4 controller..$40 or wired 3rd party for $20

Purchase of game...........$.25 cents on up. NOT $60. I currently own about 300 PS4 games and I can honestly say I've never paid anywhere near $60. Not that a game like Uncharted 4 isn't worth that. Hell, I was paying $70 for Sega Genesis games in 1990 and nearly $100 for N64 games soon after its launch. So yes, there are tons of cheap indie games available. And often times AAA games will go on sale (Flash Sale) for $5 - $10. I bought many for a steal.

 

I could name hundreds of great couch co-op games, many w/ online co-op and family friendly too.

LittleBigPlanet, Sonic Team Racing, Rocket League, Overcooked, Monopoly, Wheel of Fortune, 5 bazillion LEGO games, PS classics.. Crash Trilogy, Spyro Trilogy, and hundreds, maybe thousands more. Many of those are granny and child approved.

 

And one last thing. Going back to the controller pricing, I'm not sure if you are aware. Many people aren't so I wouldn't fault you, but the PS4 now allows you to play it's games on othjer devices. There now exists both Android and iOS support for Remote Play. This can be used with local systems to have friends join in and use their phone or tablet as an extra controller. I believe the Amico will have something similar, but the Remote Play PS4 app also acts as a streaming video display as well. So the other players can log in and play from anywhere in the world.

 

All of that being said I still do have a little interest in the Amico. I am a lover of most gaming consoles. I even own 3 Philips CD-i systems, and not just because I worked for them either! I honestly believe that if a gaming console even has only a handful of worthy exclusives then it's worth owning. So we shall see and I look forward to seeing the Amico at this year's E3 show.

 

[spoonman]

As far as games which aren't E rated there are very easy ways to limit what can be played/viewed on the system. I would hope that any parent would care enough to take the 5 minutes it takes to turn on parental controls on. Turning these parental controls on, not only blocks mature games, but also Blu-Ray and DVD discs as well.. Very useful tool for parents here!

https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/get-help/help-library/my-account/parental-controls/age-ratings-and-parental-controls/

Parenting 101

 

Very easy for parents to understand...at least for parents who are fit to raise a child. All retail physical copies, as well as digital downloads are clearly marked with this easy to understand ESRB rating.

[mr_me]

I hear grannies love the disc because they can use it with their right hand if they prefer.  This really applies to most people, as most people aren't gamers.  It's also more accurate than a dpad and more precise than a thumbstick.

 

While Nintendo does advertise family gaming doesn't Sony and Microsoft ignore it?

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, spoonman said:

As far as games which aren't E rated there are very easy ways to limit what can be played/viewed on the system. I would hope that any parent would care enough to take the 5 minutes it takes to turn on parental controls on. Turning these parental controls on, not only blocks mature games, but also Blu-Ray and DVD discs as well.. Very useful tool for parents here!

https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/get-help/help-library/my-account/parental-controls/age-ratings-and-parental-controls/

Parenting 101

 

Very easy for parents to understand...at least for parents who are fit to raise a child. All retail physical copies, as well as digital downloads are clearly marked with this easy to understand ESRB rating.

I still think as a parent you should review the games they buy for the Amico too.

[MrBeefy]

20 minutes ago, mr_me said:

I hear grannies love the disc because they can use it with their right hand if they prefer.  This really applies to most people, as most people aren't gamers.  It's also more accurate than a dpad and more precise than a thumbstick.

 

While Nintendo does advertise family gaming doesn't Sony and Microsoft ignore it?

All grannies are right handed? What the heck are you talking about? 🤣

 

You did bring up a good point most people aren't gamers so that still means you have to sell it to them. I don't see games like Farkle, or Yahtzee being the console seller when you can buy a $2-$3 set of dice to play, or already have them. It is going to need a Wii sports like game.

 

The grannies I know would rather grab the dice and roll them, or grab that $1 deck of cards and play. 

[mr_me]

Left-handed grannies can use the disc with their left hand if they prefer.  Ambidextrous controllers is what I am talking about.

 

Edit:

And what will be the Amico system seller killer app (or apps)?  That can be better discussed once we know what all the games are.  The biggest ones are yet to be revealed.

Edited February 10, 2020 by mr_me

[+Tommy Tallarico]

4 hours ago, spoonman said:

Well, I didn't really have Super Smash Bros. in mind for grannies, but I'm guessing they'd be more into that than say Earthworm Jim 3 w/ a spinning disc controller.

 

I think you may be wrongly assuming that Earthworm Jim is going to be a 2D side scrolling platform game using our 64 position d-pad.

 

That would be a wrong assumption. 

As in every EWJ game... expect the unexpected. 

🐄

 

Not that we would be targeting EWJ towards granny any way. 

 

 

4 hours ago, spoonman said:

 

I thought you were also targeting kids for the Amico demographic.

 

Absolutely we are.  And we haven't shown one single game for that demographic yet.  All coming in the fall.  If we made the mistake of showing folks that stuff now... we're dead as we would then be labeled as a stupid kids toy.

We have a great plan and we're sticking to it.

 

 

4 hours ago, spoonman said:

The PS5 is $500? Did you (Tommy) just leak something here?

I'm still saying it'll be either $399.99 or $450 MSRP. Sony has learned their lesson with the PS3 launch and Mark Cerny has said gamers will be very pleased with the PS5 price despite it's features. They are fine with taking a loss on the hardware, which will be made up on software.

 

It's the number everyone is saying so far.  But no one really knows for sure.  And I got news for ya... they lose money at $500 as well. 

 

 

4 hours ago, spoonman said:

 

Why are PS5 systems even being compared when the PS4 and Switch are still very much current systems, and will have plenty of releases for years to come.

 

Not to mention the PS4 is many times more powerful than the Amico, so let's compare that instead of the PS5...

PS4 console...................$250 ($200 during sales) vs Amico.. $220?

Dual Shock 4 controller..$40 or wired 3rd party for $20

Purchase of game...........$.25 cents on up. NOT $60. I currently own about 300 PS4 games and I can honestly say I've never paid anywhere near $60. Not that a game like Uncharted 4 isn't worth that. Hell, I was paying $70 for Sega Genesis games in 1990 and nearly $100 for N64 games soon after its launch. So yes, there are tons of cheap indie games available. And often times AAA games will go on sale (Flash Sale) for $5 - $10. I bought many for a steal.

 

I could name hundreds of great couch co-op games, many w/ online co-op and family friendly too.

LittleBigPlanet, Sonic Team Racing, Rocket League, Overcooked, Monopoly, Wheel of Fortune, 5 bazillion LEGO games, PS classics.. Crash Trilogy, Spyro Trilogy, and hundreds, maybe thousands more. Many of those are granny and child approved.

 

I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over about this, but one last time...

 

You could GIVE AWAY a PS4, Switch or XBOX and casuals and non-gamers (who play games every day) and they will STILL not play it.

Too complicated, complex, not marketed towards them, controller too difficult, blah, blah, blah.... etc.

 

You can play "The Price Is Right" with comparison pricing all day long... but (once again for the 100th time) only 6.67% of all video gamers actually play on the 3 main consoles.  Lets let that all sink in for a second.

That means that there are multiple reasons the other 93.3% of all people who play video games do NOT play on their TV.  The BIGGEST reason that the data shows (by far) is that the controllers are too complicated, the games don't appeal to them, they feel they are too complex (menu screens, etc.) and the games are too expensive.  Everything we feel we have addressed and will carve out a nice lane for ourselves.  It's fine if folks here don't believe it will happen.  I love being the underdog.  Makes the victory even that much more sweeter. 

 

 

4 hours ago, spoonman said:

 

And one last thing. Going back to the controller pricing, I'm not sure if you are aware. Many people aren't so I wouldn't fault you, but the PS4 now allows you to play it's games on othjer devices. There now exists both Android and iOS support for Remote Play. This can be used with local systems to have friends join in and use their phone or tablet as an extra controller. I believe the Amico will have something similar, but the Remote Play PS4 app also acts as a streaming video display as well. So the other players can log in and play from anywhere in the world.

 

Oh.. we're VERY AWARE.  But have you ever played any of them?  Total CRAP.  Every last one of them.  That's why Sony doesn't push them. 

 

 

4 hours ago, spoonman said:

 

All of that being said I still do have a little interest in the Amico. I am a lover of most gaming consoles. I even own 3 Philips CD-i systems, and not just because I worked for them either! I honestly believe that if a gaming console even has only a handful of worthy exclusives then it's worth owning. So we shall see and I look forward to seeing the Amico at this year's E3 show.

 

 

Cool.  I'm glad you're still keeping an open mind.  If you like consoles that have a handful of worthy exclusives... then I think you'll really enjoy what we have to offer.  But yes... you should definitely wait until you get your hands on one before making your decision.

 

 

 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

4 hours ago, spoonman said:

I would hope that any parent would care enough to take the 5 minutes it takes to turn on parental controls on. Turning these parental controls on, not only blocks mature games, but also Blu-Ray and DVD discs as well.. Very useful tool for parents here!

 

 

I agree with your statement except I would push back a little bit on Parental Controls taking 5 minutes.  Have you ever tried doing it on the Switch?  It's very complicated... especially if you're a non-gaming mom.

You'll also notice that the Parental Controls video on the Nintendo Switch is the only video on their YouTube channel where they have turned the comments off.  Tons of articles have been written about how complicated and complex the Parental Controls are to set up and manage.

 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

One final word on pricing (as it was the topic of discussion here late last night).

Adding a $50 online gift card, added SD card memory, carrying case, etc. to a $249 price tag makes the value MUCH higher and still maintains a "early adapter" price point that retail prefers.  It's the Costco model... which is why they are the #2 retailer in the U.S. behind Walmart.  Amazon (which everyone mistakes as being #1, is actually 3rd).

 

 

[ColecoJoe]

26 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Have you ever tried doing it on the Switch?  It's very complicated... especially if you're a non-gaming mom.

Are you saying it's difficult because you have to download a phone app to set the controls? Because other than that I don't really see the complexity.

 

 

[YerOut]

2 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

The grannies I know would rather grab the dice and roll them, or grab that $1 deck of cards and play. 

Good points MrBeefy but....Gave the 70+ year old Mother-in-Law an older laptop the wife had no use for.  All she ever used it for was to play Solitaire.  I'm pretty sure the last thing she wanted was to hand shuffle and deal out 52 cards every time she wanted to play.  At my age I've been known to roll a die or 2 off of the table and the last thing I want to do is crawl under the table or move a couch to collect wayward dice (these actions get harder and harder). I'm just saying some older gamers who have a little disposable income and don't employee a "Cabana boy" may prefer to do these things by pushing "replay".