Independent Amico Discussion Thread

[+Swami]

47 minutes ago, JeffVav said:

Not to dis my grandmother's tech acumen above BTW. I made the same mistake of second guessing what my oldest would want when he was 7...
 

He wanted a computer of his own. I bought him a 1st gen OLPC. (There was a buy one/donate one programme I participated in.) I thought they were the future for kids and computers. Cute fluffy UI but rugged hardware and Linux underneath for when he might be able to get serious one day. Barely got any use at all. Bought him an entry level Windows machine (all-in-one Compaq desktop) instead within a little over a year. 
 

To the OLPC's credit I'm sure the R&D that went into it is why netbooks came into being and I still prefer netbooks as my travel PC, so there were some solid ideas there. 

 

For those that don't know about the OLPC, it's an interesting story:

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17233946/olpcs-100-laptop-education-where-is-it-now

So, what did he like about the desktop that he didn't like about the OLPC? Despite the article's gloom and doom presentation, the OLPC has sold millions and newer version continue to be made and sold. It was designed for the impoverished, so, maybe your son was outside the intended market. In fact, intel made its own version called the Classmate PC.

[+Swami]

3 hours ago, JeffVav said:

First, I hope it succeeds. I would get no thrill in seeing it fail, so whatever comments I make are largely from a place of "what are the hurdles, what can improve its chances?" not "it's going to fail because..." I actually think a lot (not all) of the so-called negativity might be coming from a similar place. There's a difference between critique and negativity. 

 

With that in mind, I was talking to my kids about Amico. My youngest is 16 so maybe older than the "parental control" demo, but young enough to remember what motivated them when they were 10 and 7. 
 

The first comment I got was that kids want what their friends have, no matter the age. And their friends/classmates (perhaps by way of older siblings) are going to be more familiar with the pre-existing brands. So it's a bit of a chicken and egg. Not a reason to fail, but a hurdle to overcome. 
 

They suggested that having a high profile IP for their demographic (not their words) would be key. At the time they were 10 and 7, that might've been Club Penguin. Trying to get market penetration with a new hardware simultaneous with a new (to their age set) software is a more steeply uphill battle. 
 

I remember when I was a teen and my grandmother tried to buy me an Atari 2600 game once. The game she got was way off the mark from what actually interested me. Never heard of it, didn't understand it, played it for 10 minutes and never again. 
 

There's been a lot of talk about how it's going to appeal to parents. We've heard how Amico will make parental controls a non-issue, how it will have more to offer in co-op for parents that do want to play with their kids, but e.g. when those Switch comparisons come up, I think it would benefit to think like the kid too, not just the parent. From a kids' perspective it has the potential to be more like (but not to the extreme of) saying "I want an Atari 2600 game for Christmas" and unwrapping Fun With Numbers. (Or getting a Windows Phone when you wanted an iPhone like everyone else in your class, to pick a less extreme example.) i.e. kid gets parent's idea of what they want the kid to play rather than what they actually want to play. 
 

So once they get an Amico, they need to be pleasantly surprised. If by chance Kid A gets Amico, you want to be sure they tell Kid B "go for it" when Kid B says their parent is wondering if they should get one. 
 

There needs to be selling points for word of mouth to work amongst the kids too, not just the parents.

 

Again not saying they haven't thought of this. Just that it's a missing part of the picture that hasn't been highlighted so much in these discussions. And I'm not saying Tommy owes us answers either. The eventual marketing campaign will presumably reveal all. But in the meantime I wonder aloud about it in a group where we're invited to discuss such things. 

If pokemon has succeeded with female and male kids from 5 to 30, I don't know why this couldn't. Most people would have thought boys would only want more Transformer and Garbage Pail kids type stuff. 

[JeffVav]

18 minutes ago, Swami said:

If pokemon has succeeded with female and male kids from 5 to 30, I don't know why this couldn't. Most people would have thought boys would only want more Transformer and Garbage Pail kids type stuff.

 

Pokémon gained widespread traction over an extended period of time, and leveraged an existing platform. The point I was making is if, by analogy, Nintendo introduced the Game Boy and Pokémon at the same time, and the world at large had never heard of either (or Nintendo) before, they'd have a larger uphill challenge ahead of them. But the process was incremental. Tetris was popular. Game Boy was positioned (in part) as a way to play Tetris easily, on the go (launch title). Then Pokémon leveraged the established Game Boy user base. They weren't trying to invent the platform and the content at the same time.  The brands we've heard about for Amico so far aren't familiar to children, so basically equivalent to new IP.

 

23 minutes ago, Swami said:

So, what did he like about the desktop that he didn't like about the OLPC? Despite the article's gloom and doom presentation, the OLPC has sold millions and newer version continue to be made and sold. It was designed for the impoverished, so, maybe your son was outside the intended market. In fact, intel made its own version called the Classmate PC.

 

That's really easy to answer: what it lacked was access to the content all his friends were into.

 

"It was designed for the impoverished" is, I think, mischaracterising the platform.  You could say it was designed to be affordable/accessible to the impoverished.  But it was designed for kids; their financial status has no bearing on what they could do with it.  To that end, he was the target market.  (Jobs offered OS X sans licensing fees and they turned it down.  It could've been basically an uber-affordable Mac+.  What, functionally, about the machine limited it to targeting "the impoverished"?)

Edited February 16, 2020 by JeffVav
typo

[+Swami]

2 minutes ago, JeffVav said:

 

Pokémon gained widespread traction over an extended period of time, and leveraged an existing platform. The point I was making is if, by analogy, Nintendo introduced the Game Boy and Pokémon at the same time, and the world at large had never heard of either (or Nintendo) before, they'd have a larger uphill challenge ahead of them. But the process was incremental. Tetris was popular. Game Boy was introduced as a way to play Tetris easily, on the go (launch title). Then Pokémon leveraged the established Game Boy user base. They weren't trying to invent the platform and the content at the same time.  The brands we've heard about for Amico so far aren't familiar to children, so basically equivalent to new IP.

 

 

That's really easy to answer: what it lacked was access to the content all his friends were into.

 

"It was designed for the impoverished" is, I think, mischaracterising the platform.  You could say it was designed to affordable/accessible to the impoverished.  But it was designed for kids; their financial status has no bearing on what they could do with it.  To that end, he was the target market.  (Jobs offered OS X sans licensing fees and they turned it down.  It could've been basically an uber-affordable Mac+.  What, functionally, about the machine limited it to targeting "the impoverished"?)

I think that's just spin.

[JeffVav]

14 minutes ago, Swami said:

I think that's just spin.

 

Sorry, unclear what you're referring to there...  What the potential market of the OLPC was?  It's called One Laptop Per Child, not One Laptop Per Impoverished Child.  The purpose of the machine was to equalise education and accessibility to computers, not contribute to a multi-tier Class System.  The last thing they wanted was kids in poorer areas being "behind" their more fortunate peers.  The whole point was to combat that.

 

But at any rate the analogy breaks down here, so this is perhaps a useless tangent.  I don't think Amico is being positioned as the console for people who aren't fortunate enough to have an Xbox, PS4, or Switch.

 

Edit to add: debating what the OLPC was really for takes us down a tangent that wasn't really the point I was making.  Regardless of what you think it was meant for, I thought it was a good idea for my son some 13 years ago.  He had a different perspective.  That's all I'm really saying.

Edited February 16, 2020 by JeffVav

[JeffVav]

...I think the conclusion I have to draw here is that Tommy's got to know all this, so there's likely a major kid-demographic licence that hasn't been announced yet.  Wouldn't be at all surprising if, say, they had some major Disney brand, but they wouldn't be allowed to talk about it publicly until Disney got to see a near-final product and were satisfied with it.  And that wouldn't come until late in the game, much much closer to launch.

 

Hypothetically.

 

Edit: in other words, look for Baby Yoda: The Game coming to Amico in October 2020.

Edited February 16, 2020 by JeffVav

[MarioMan88]

If the games at launch are fun, affordable and gain a “gotta have” position...people will adopt the system. I was 6 years younger than my brother who had Atari & Intellivision in the 80’s. In the fall of ‘87 I was 13 and staying over at a friends house who had this new game system I’d never heard of...the NES. We played Mike Tyson’s Punchout and Super Mario Bros and I was hooked. Never picked up Atari again. Later in life my brother who worked at Sears told me countless Atari 7800’s were returned after that Christmas of ‘87 by parents who bought it instead of the NES for their kids. Had I not bugged the crap out of my folks for the NES I may have been one of this disappointed kids.
 

GAMES GAMES GAMES are gonna make or break this system. I’m sure they know this. If the games are good all is well.

Edited February 16, 2020 by MarioMan88

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, JeffVav said:

...I think the conclusion I have to draw here is that Tommy's got to know all this, so there's likely a major kid-demographic licence that hasn't been announced yet.  Wouldn't be at all surprising if, say, they had some major Disney brand, but they wouldn't be allowed to talk about it publicly until Disney got to see a near-final product and were satisfied with it.  And that wouldn't come until late in the game, much much closer to launch.

 

Hypothetically.

 

Edit: in other words, look for Baby Yoda: The Game coming to Amico in October 2020.

They definitely have licenses they haven't announced yet.  And they are saving the biggest for their summer campaign.  I'm not expecting anything star wars related for a while but you never know.  One that's been hinted is Frozen.

Edited February 16, 2020 by mr_me

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, JeffVav said:

But at any rate the analogy breaks down here, so this is perhaps a useless tangent.  I don't think Amico is being positioned as the console for people who aren't fortunate enough to have an Xbox, PS4, or Switch.

With it being around the $230 mark it really isn't a more affordable alternative. You might not be able to buy the newest xbox or PS at the same price but you could get a Switch or this generations consoles for that or less. The games are more affordable overall, but if you look you can find similar deals on those platforms that are affordable and fun.

 

If you compare to next gen then yes it will be more affordable.

Edited February 16, 2020 by MrBeefy
Clarifying

[MrBeefy]

17 minutes ago, mr_me said:

They definitely have licenses they haven't announced yet.  And they are saving the biggest for their summer campaign.  I'm not expecting anything star wars related for a while but you never know.  One that's been hinted is Frozen.

Oh just LET IT GOOOOOOO!

 

🥓🌮🥒🥓🌮🥒🥓🌮🥒

 

 

[MrBeefy]

Some may also saying buying an Amico is like journeying INTO THE UNKNOWN!

 

🥓🌮🥒🥓🌮🥒🥓🌮🥒

 

 

[+Swami]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

With it being around the $230 mark it really isn't a more affordable alternative. You might not be able to buy the newest xbox or PS at the same price but you could get a Switch or this generations consoles for that or less. The games are more affordable overall, but if you look you can find similar deals on those platforms that are affordable and fun.

 

If you compare to next gen then yes it will be more affordable.

So, it didn't help the Switch having a lower price than because there was the PS3, Xbox One and Xbox 360 cheaper?

[MrBeefy]

I honestly think Switch sold because of Zelda. Nintendo IPs are quality and only on Nintendo. Price didn't hurt I'm sure but I think that was a huge part.

 

I know it isn't competing with same market but the Switch will still be appealing and there is a cheaper version albeit a handheld. I think Amico at $180 easily makes it as an easy choice for a second or third console in a house. It would be a no brainer for a younger family who doesn't game as a first console. 

 

 

[+Swami]

37 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I honestly think Switch sold because of Zelda. Nintendo IPs are quality and only on Nintendo. Price didn't hurt I'm sure but I think that was a huge part.

 

I know it isn't competing with same market but the Switch will still be appealing and there is a cheaper version albeit a handheld. I think Amico at $180 easily makes it as an easy choice for a second or third console in a house. It would be a no brainer for a younger family who doesn't game as a first console. 

 

 

I suppose that's one opinion. I'm not going to off on a tangent, though.

[Steven Pendleton]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

I honestly think Switch sold because of Zelda. Nintendo IPs are quality and only on Nintendo. Price didn't hurt I'm sure but I think that was a huge part.

 

I know it isn't competing with same market but the Switch will still be appealing and there is a cheaper version albeit a handheld. I think Amico at $180 easily makes it as an easy choice for a second or third console in a house. It would be a no brainer for a younger family who doesn't game as a first console. 

 

 

I wouldn't give Zelda all of the credit, especially in Japan, where a considerably smaller amount of people care about Zelda and it gets outsold by almost everything that isn't Metroid. I would give credit to the Switch's decent library overall, though, and there's still a lot more coming, like Shin Megami Tensei V, which I specifically bought the system for back when Atlus was teasing it but had not yet announced it. A big gamble, but they did announce it about 2 weeks later, so I was quite pleased.

 

Anyway, Amico. I love how people on other forums and Youtube are acting like the Amico is going to be the next SuperGrafx or something (not that those casuals even know the SuperGrafx exists). It won't. It already has more than 5 games announced for it. It even has more than 7 games if you want to count Darius Plus and Darius Alpha! We haven't even seen all of the things in development yet, and Tommy said I think in the QA thread that R-Type and some other games have not even begun development yet.

 

Remember how terrible the 3DS launch was? How everyone mocked it, and how everyone called it a total failure? Now it's considered (incorrectly) to be the best handheld system ever for some reason. The Nomad's library is still way better! Maybe that's cheating, but I don't get paid to care about that. Anyway, I say just let the Amico launch and see what happens. Even if it becomes the next SuperGrafx (it won't), it will still at least be a good way to play original Intellivision games with a real controller on a modern display. Best of all, no DLC to make me feel like I bought a third of a game like I do with all other modern games that are not visual novels (even then, the last one of those I bought had a day 1 patch! Unbelievable!).

[MrBeefy]

4 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I wouldn't give Zelda all of the credit, especially in Japan, where a considerably smaller amount of people care about Zelda and it gets outsold by almost everything that isn't Metroid. I would give credit to the Switch's decent library overall, though, and there's still a lot more coming, like Shin Megami Tensei V, which I specifically bought the system for back when Atlus was teasing it but had not yet announced it. A big gamble, but they did announce it about 2 weeks later, so I was quite pleased.

 

Anyway, Amico. I love how people on other forums and Youtube are acting like the Amico is going to be the next SuperGrafx or something (not that those casuals even know the SuperGrafx exists). It won't. It already has more than 5 games announced for it. It even has more than 7 games if you want to count Darius Plus and Darius Alpha! We haven't even seen all of the things in development yet, and Tommy said I think in the QA thread that R-Type and some other games have not even begun development yet.

 

Remember how terrible the 3DS launch was? How everyone mocked it, and how everyone called it a total failure? Now it's considered (incorrectly) to be the best handheld system ever for some reason. The Nomad's library is still way better! Maybe that's cheating, but I don't get paid to care about that. Anyway, I say just let the Amico launch and see what happens. Even if it becomes the next SuperGrafx (it won't), it will still at least be a good way to play original Intellivision games with a real controller on a modern display. Best of all, no DLC to make me feel like I bought a third of a game like I do with all other modern games that are not visual novels (even then, the last one of those I bought had a day 1 patch! Unbelievable!).

I do like the no DLC and feel like a sequel should just be made instead of additional content. 

[roots.genoa]

1 hour ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Remember how terrible the 3DS launch was? How everyone mocked it, and how everyone called it a total failure?

3DS had quite a lot of games for its launch actually, maybe 15, but it lacked a "killer app" (Ghost Recon was actually awesome and offered a LOT of value - I've played 50+ hours - but nobody cared since it was a tactical game). I would compare it to the PS2, even though the PS2 launch was a success because people wanted the PS1 successor no matter what. There were a dozen of games as well but nothing exciting...

Anyway, you can't compare that to SuperGrafx indeed, or even the Dreamcast which had 3-4 mediocre games at launch in Japan (even though Sonic was released shortly after). And Amico is a lot different since 5 games are included, so it may not be necessary to have a 'big' standalone game for launch. It's more similar to the Wii (and that's probably the whole point) in that regard.

[Steven Pendleton]

35 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

3DS had quite a lot of games for its launch actually, maybe 15, but it lacked a "killer app" (Ghost Recon was actually awesome and offered a LOT of value - I've played 50+ hours - but nobody cared since it was a tactical game). I would compare it to the PS2, even though the PS2 launch was a success because people wanted the PS1 successor no matter what. There were a dozen of games as well but nothing exciting...

Anyway, you can't compare that to SuperGrafx indeed, or even the Dreamcast which had 3-4 mediocre games at launch in Japan (even though Sonic was released shortly after). And Amico is a lot different since 5 games are included, so it may not be necessary to have a 'big' standalone game for launch. It's more similar to the Wii (and that's probably the whole point) in that regard.

I got my 3DS a few months after launch and it was truly horrible at launch. The only thing I got at launch was Steel Diver, and only because I remembered that as a tech demo thingy for the DS, which I had skipped in favour of the PSP, and even then I only got that in late 2008. I used the 3DS primarily for Pokemon at launch because Steel Diver is like a 30 minute tech demo. It's a great system now, though.

 

I also got the PS2 a few months after launch for Christmas 2000, and that was even worse. I used it for PS1 games for a few months and then never used it again until late 2006 when Tales of the Abyss finally launched in the USA. At least it was a DVD player, but I have never really cared about watching movies, so even that was just whatever for me.

 

GameCube had an amazing launch. Rogue Squadron II alone was worth it, and that somehow turned out to be one of the best and most graphically impressive titles on the system, even though it was an extremely rushed launch title. Smash came out only a few weeks later, as well. Too bad everyone thought it was a weak console for little kids even though it was way more powerful than the ultra wimpy PS2. The kids at my school aside from me said that the PS2 was stronger in every way, anyway, but I knew the truth.

 

I hope that Amico has a great launch with lots of solid launch titles like the GameCube did. Need to use that golden ticket for something. It or the money on it doesn't expire, does it? Just in case I want to keep some of that for later titles.

[digdugnate]

what i'm reading from the last page or so is that it's the *games* that have the highest likelihood of selling the system to the general public and i'm inclined to agree.

 

It could be the best console in the world and make coffee for you and everything, but it won't make a difference if there's not a solid lineup.  Amico's shaping up to have a pretty solid library of titles, but proof is in the pudding.

[roots.genoa]

I'm still convinced that a solid lineup, even though necessary indeed, is nothing without the marketing to back it (once again, Ghost Recon was terrific on 3DS but very few media mentioned it). I guess Amico will get both but in the end, it will depend on the public perception of these games.

[Steven Pendleton]

Tommy keeps saying that they have some of the best marketing people on the planet, including the lady that launched Pokemon, the DS, and the Wii. I don't think they will have a problem with marketing.

 

The thing needs lots of good games, just like every system. Look at the PC Engine, the TurboGrafx-16, and the Saturn. PC Engine as an incredible library of about 700 games, but only about 140 of those made it to the USA, so the TurboGrafx-16 died before it got a chance.

 

Same with Saturn. All of the best Japanese Saturn games never left Japan. Interestingly, the N64 beat the Saturn everywhere but Japan, where the N64 got a solid dead last place in 5th gen, which was the only time that Sega actually beat Nintendo in hardware sales in Japan in the same generation. I wonder if that has something to do with Japan getting the entire library for the Saturn, which nobody else got, in addition to the entire library of N64 games. It's almost like systems that actually have games released on them don't fail! Yay, SuperGrafx with its 5 exclusive games!

 

Since they already have the rights (and the original dev team) for Earthworm Jim, I'd really like to see Earthworm Jim Special Edition for Sega CD get its first rerelease on the Amico so people don't have to spend $200+ on Ebay and risk getting a fake CD-R. Add in whatever the best version of EWJ 2 is (Saturn? Only ever played Genesis and SNES versions of EWJ 2. Might have to ask Tommy what the best version is!), and I would be extremely happy.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[+Tommy Tallarico]

14 hours ago, JeffVav said:

...I think the conclusion I have to draw here is that Tommy's got to know all this, so there's likely a major kid-demographic licence that hasn't been announced yet.

TONS!!!!

 

[mr_me]

9 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

..., it will still at least be a good way to play original Intellivision games with a real controller on a modern display. ...

This is debateable.  It will be fine for some games, others might need buttons remapped which is doable with emulation, others will be tough with an amico controller.

 

2 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I'd really like to see Earthworm Jim Special Edition for Sega CD get its first rerelease on the Amico so people don't have to spend $200+ on Ebay and risk getting a fake CD-R.

There's other ways to get a copy.

Edited February 16, 2020 by mr_me

[MrBeefy]

1 minute ago, mr_me said:

This is debateable.  It will be fine for some games, others might need buttons remapped which is doable with emulation, others will be tough with an amico controller.

Why do you think it will be tough?

[Steven Pendleton]

4 minutes ago, mr_me said:

This is debateable.  It will be fine for some games, others might need buttons remapped which is doable with emulation, others will be tough with an amico controller.

Well, of course the best way would be to RGB mod an Intellivision and run it through the OSSC, but I refuse to drill holes in mine to do that. Or any other system, for that matter. Good thing I have a CRT.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Steven Pendleton