Independent Amico Discussion Thread

[m-crew]

11 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Emulation can be a disadvantage.  I had missed collisions with Vectron and switched to real hardware for my best scores.  My locknchase score was done in mame with an intellivision controller.  I might have to switch to real hardware to beat it.

Well, go for it if you have time today.

[MrBeefy]

26 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Emulation can be a disadvantage.  I had missed collisions with Vectron and switched to real hardware for my best scores.  My locknchase score was done in mame with an intellivision controller.  I might have to switch to real hardware to beat it.

Go for it! I get what you are saying about controllers and emulation but the key is that you're having fun!

[MrBeefy]

29 minutes ago, ColecoJoe said:

That’s a great idea. Something like that should be included in the game packs. 

That would be great for digital downloads... 🙄 😁

 

But yeah if they get the physical release the cover attachment would be cool. Maybe they would make legacy USB controllers? Obviously wouldn't be a high priority for the first year since the original games are out until 2021 at least.

[Papy]

On 2/15/2020 at 6:36 AM, spoonman said:

(Kids).. I am going to assume that would likely be disappointed if they received an Amico system instead of a Switch or PS4. I can also guess that they would rather have either Minecraft or Pokémon than Shark Shark or any other 1980's remake. For the record *I* would rather have the INTV game, but that's me. 

 

(Hardcore gamers).. I consider myself to be in this category. I will admit that I was a bit hyped for a new Earthworm Jim game, which I was basically told wasn't for fans of the classic EWJ style. I can't stand using a touchscreen to play games on. I also dislike the disc controller on the INTV.. Almost as much as I hate the ColecoVision controller. And I wouldn't want to spend $250 on another game console which restricts me to only E rated games.

 

(Granny-Gamers).. They'll take one look at the Amico controller and run back to their very family Wii to continue playing Wii Sports tennis and bowling.

In order to evaluate how people will react to Amico, I believe we have to answer two important questions first... and then a third one which might seem unrelated.

 

The first question of why people play video games in the first place. The second question is why the majority of people who play video games don't buy consoles.

 

As for the third question, it is why board games have become so popular since the end of the 90s.

 

I'm tempted to write an essay on this, but since I'm swamped with work, I will go directly to the point. One major reason to play games (not just video games) is to fulfill our need for socialization. Unfortunately, modern video games are kind of bad at this. They are either too elitist or too solitary.

 

So to me, if Amico games can create social links between people through either friendly competition or cooperation, then the console has the potential to become one of the most successful consoles of all time.

 

-

 

Having said this, I'll be honest and say that the demos I've seen up to now didn't impress me much. What I saw of Breakout was just... Breakout. The music and sound effects were really good, even kind of Zen, but the gameplay I saw won't interest many people.

 

Same thing for Moon Patrol. What I saw was a mix of the old Moon Patrol with the power ups of arcade shooters. If that's the only thing the game is about, then it's a game most people will forget after 15 minutes.

 

Night Stalker also had an excellent music and sound design. However. I felt the graphics were unnecessarily complex (that is they are hindering accessibility). More importantly, I got the feeling it was three people playing the same game at the same time, but with no interaction between them. That's bad.

 

Finally, Astrosmash was kind of the same. Complex graphics and too many things going on at the same time, so not looking accessible. And again, two people playing the same game at the same time, but it looks like there was no interaction.

 

So if what I saw was what Amico games are about, if games don't focus on direct interaction, if the only "interaction" is to know who has the highest score, then Amico will be a flop.

 

I do hope what we saw was just alpha versions of the games, but I guess we'll know more in June. I guess we'll be able to judge if Amico will be a huge success or a complete flop at that time.

[spoonman]

On 2/15/2020 at 10:12 AM, MrBeefy said:

 I imagine it is using the microphone to blow his head up in a level he foes up. Motion for steering in like the wormhole race level. Touch screen for control of Jim playing Pong with the puppies trying to not let them get squashed.

 

Thing I'm trying to imagine is buttons. If it stayed someone like a platformer one to jump, one to shoot, touchscreen for whip? 

 

On 2/15/2020 at 2:47 PM, mr_me said:

How about tap the touchpad to jump, swipe to whip, and shoulder button to fire your weapon. 

I'd say that most people just prefer to play their ames the old traditional way, with a d-pad or joystick. If you look through gaming history, you'll see just how many alternative controlling methods there has been, and the one tried and true method has been the controller/joystick.

 

Even the Wii with it's near perfect execution failed to get most gamers to enjoy playing games with "waggle" controls. It was the biggest downside of Zelda The Twilight Princess, and (among other things) why people stuck with the GameCube version of it instead. Same with Zelda Skyward Sword, which was built from the ground up with the newest Wii Motion Plus controls at its core. Gamers are still requesting Nintendo to remaster it just so they can use a standard controller. People emulate it (on Dolphin) just to use a control pad. 

 

There have been some absolutely amazingly innovative controls added to games over the years, but they just don't stick (no pun intended). Look at GTA China Town on the DS, Tearaway on the PS Vita, for example. They didn't sell particularly well. In fact they may have sold better had they not had those, as some would say, "gimmicky" controls.

 

I'm probably one of the few people who would like an actual rotary dial controller for brick breaker games. I loved them on the Atari VCS, and I bought Arkanoid w/ VAUS rotary controller, the day it became available. I even bought the Famicom version w/ Arkanoid II, and I also bought the rotory spinner on the DS, which I love. It's a shame they didn't really support it. I thought the Atari Flashback collections would be fine to play PONG, Tempest, and other Paddle controlled games with either the Touchpad or analog sticks, but it isn't. They need a true analog paddle.

 

13 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Tommy's going to show... something... about the Amico controller at E3. Something revolutionary, I guess. Something to do with the screen. I'm guessing that it's going to have something to do with simulating the bumps on the keypad on the original controller. Maybe some sort of force feedback (what kids these days call rumble) or something like that to indicate when you are actually over one of the "buttons" on the original controller.

Haptic feedback?

 

My guess is that it will use the LCD touch screen to mimick the INTV color overlays which fit on top of the INTV controller. I guess that's a pretty obvious use for it though. Probably the best use IMO.

[Steven Pendleton]

1 minute ago, spoonman said:

Haptic feedback?

 

My guess is that it will use the LCD touch screen to mimick the INTV color overlays which fit on top of the INTV controller. I guess that's a pretty obvious use for it though. Probably the best use IMO.

Yes.

 

I'd be extremely surprised if we didn't have the overlays on the screen at all times. Something like having little raised sections to feel the bumps on the original buttons would be great, but that doesn't really do much since it's a capacitive screen now, so the moment you touch it, it will register a press, unlike the original INTV controller, where you actually have to press it. Unless they figured out how to make a capacitive touchscreen that is somehow pressure sensitive and I don't know about it.

[+Swami]

3 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Yes.

 

I'd be extremely surprised if we didn't have the overlays on the screen at all times. Something like having little raised sections to feel the bumps on the original buttons would be great, but that doesn't really do much since it's a capacitive screen now, so the moment you touch it, it will register a press, unlike the original INTV controller, where you actually have to press it. Unless they figured out how to make a capacitive touchscreen that is somehow pressure sensitive and I don't know about it.

I think All they'd need to do is make some overlays out of that phone screen protector material that's crystal clear that is shaped for the buttons of the game, but you can still see the screen perfectly. It would be a little firmer so you don't get the trapped air bubble effect.

[Steven Pendleton]

I just hope it's not a pressure sensitive touchscreen. I still remember the horrors of trying to put my gun down or not slit some dude's throat in MGS 2 and 3.

[Utopia]

14 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

What do I do if it's already Monday?

A lot of hair spray in that clip. 

[Utopia]

15 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Good Sunday morning everyone. Woke up to this playing on the radio and now I can't get it out of my head. You're welcome to share in my misery.

 

 

May your Sunday be bacon filled and I hope everyone gave that special someone a gift they loved.

Big hair was big back then, really big!

Edited February 17, 2020 by Utopia

[Steven Pendleton]

Lots of Japanese girls (gyaru, mainly) still have really big hair.

[+phoenixdownita]

'till October 10 is quite the wait, 8 more months.

 

What are the chances that the "type of controller" won't make any difference at all?

I wish the Amico the success of the Wii, but of that era no gimmick has remained: the Wii motion controller is gone, the 360 Kinect is gone, the PS3 ice-cream+camera is gone etc...etc... even the PS4 VR is still there but ...

Then again a "one hit wonder" with 100M+ units in sales is possible so ... on the good side time will tell so we will know how it ends no matter what.

[Steven Pendleton]

11 minutes ago, phoenixdownita said:

'till October 10 is quite the wait, 8 more months.

 

What are the chances that the "type of controller" won't make any difference at all?

I wish the Amico the success of the Wii, but of that era no gimmick has remained: the Wii motion controller is gone, the 360 Kinect is gone, the PS3 ice-cream+camera is gone etc...etc... even the PS4 VR is still there but ...

Then again a "one hit wonder" with 100M+ units in sales is possible so ... on the good side time will tell so we will know how it ends no matter what.

PS Move still kind of exists, and I even have a PS4 game that supports it (Omega Quintet).

Edited February 17, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[spoonman]

1 hour ago, Steven Pendleton said:

PS Move still kind of exists, and I even have a PS4 game that supports it (Omega Quintet).

The Sony Move controllers were excellent for light gun style games (House of The Dead III, IV, Overkill, etc).

The PS gun shells made them MUCH better IMO. I grabbed 2 of these for only $5 each. They get bonus points for being Famicom colored.

 

I also like how they are still chargeable while in the shells.

 

I still use the Move controllers extensively with PSVR, and it looks like it's the preferred controller to use with Dreams (which looks incredible so far).

It's by far more accurate than any of the Wii motion controls, thankfully! I was very impressed by just how accurate a Move controller while playing the PSVR game, Tumble VR. Where it requires you to make very precise movements with 3D objects.

 

As good as they are I hope Sony Moves onto something else with PSVR 2.0. I'm guessing it'll also have haptic feedback and more individual finger control as well.

Edited February 17, 2020 by spoonman
Typo

[Steven Pendleton]

I know the MiSTer supports using the Wii thingy for light gun games. It would be nice to see it support the Move, since that is supposedly way better. VR... once VR is basically the holodeck, then I'll be interested. Remember Sam & Max? "This is virtual reality? I may be sick."

 

Anyway, we'll just have to wait to see the Amico's revolutionary whatever. I just looked at the tech specs for the Amico controller and the Nomad, and I was right; the Amico controller screen is 3.2 inches and the Nomad's screen is 3.25 inches, so they are almost exactly the same size. Might be a little cramped to fit all of the original Intellivision buttons on there, but I think it's doable.

[mr_me]

I think the only surprises to come with the controller are how the different features might be used in games.  Technically speaking we probably already know what it is.

 

Regarding the game demos so far, it's obviously too early to draw conclusions.  There will be thirty to forty games at launch, only a fraction will be retro titles.  While every game will be multiplayer with both coop and versus modes where possible, I don't think you can forget about single player game play.

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by mr_me

[m-crew]

40 minutes ago, mr_me said:

I think the only surprises to come with the controller are how the different features might be used in games.  Technically speaking we probably already know what it is.

 

Regarding the game demos so far, it's obviously too early to draw conclusions.  There will be thirty to forty games at launch, only a fraction will be retro titles.  While every game will be multiplayer with both coop and versus modes where possible, I don't think you can forget about single player game play.

 

The modern and update Amico Controller they way Tommy has been explaining it and on the feedback from focus groups and testing that most people love it and IE are making improvements by test group feedback back(as mentioned feedback on the controller were very positive)The Amico is being marketed to a specific segment and I think the worry about the controller we are reading /hearing are coming from hardcore gamers. On the games so far for me and once again from most of the feed back from test groups people are loving them. I agree you on hardcore gamers drawing conclusions. They 10 Amico commandments and the high quality control of the games 7+ and diversity of games at launch from catering to preschoolers all the way casual and hardcore(if hardcore gamers get past their pride in playing a system not all about specs but games) .will give the Amico a great head start on establishing itself in the market. Once again It's about getting the name,games and what the Amico is all about in the Market/Advertising.Looking forward to seeing all this happen this spring and to finally it's release come October...  

[mr_me]

Mcrew is right, 95%+ of Amico customers won't care how well it emulates an intellivision controller.  And there's no reason to worry about how old earthworm jim can be emulated with an amico controller.  The new eartworm jim and all Amico games will be designed to work well with the Amico controller.  I can see some things being gimicky.  Take the dice roll demo for example, it might get people's attention but after a while won't it be easier to just push a button. They could also do motion control really well and really enhance gameplay, better than the Wii did.

Edited February 17, 2020 by mr_me

[Steven Pendleton]

1 hour ago, m-crew said:

if hardcore gamers get past their pride in playing a system not all about specs but games

True hardcores don't care about specs. That's why they kept and still play their old games and systems from 30-40 years ago. They buy every console (except maybe Xbox, Ouya, and Stadia since those are pointless) and play every genre. Platformers, shooting, shooter, puzzle, visual novels, RPGs, strategy, flight sims, and whatever the hell Patapon and Katamari are supposed to be.

 

As for the controller, that will be fine. Nobody freaked out and said the PlayStation controller was bad when it added analog sticks. Nobody freaked out when the SFC added shoulder buttons and said it was going to be garbage. By the way, Sega had both of those on the Mega Drive in Japan already, though it was a third party controller, I think.

 

Change is good. Differentiation from similar products, whether they compete directly with each other or not, is good. All of that other crap looks the same to the average consumer. Amico is different. Different sells.

[m-crew]

20 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

True hardcores don't care about specs. That's why they kept and still play their old games and systems from 30-40 years ago. They buy every console (except maybe Xbox, Ouya, and Stadia since those are pointless) and play every genre. Platformers, shooting, shooter, puzzle, visual novels, RPGs, strategy, flight sims, and whatever the hell Patapon and Katamari are supposed to be.

 

As for the controller, that will be fine. Nobody freaked out and said the PlayStation controller was bad when it added analog sticks. Nobody freaked out when the SFC added shoulder buttons and said it was going to be garbage. By the way, Sega had both of those on the Mega Drive in Japan already, though it was a third party controller, I think.

 

Change is good. Differentiation from similar products, whether they compete directly with each other or not, is good. All of that other crap looks the same to the average consumer. Amico is different. Different sells.

I beg to differ, Hardcore gamers are about what the next improvement are and in specs and graphics , yes (collectors)gamers and retro gamers collect all retro consoles.. Like I have mentioned before about my brother and all he's friends. Which are hardcore gamers(on line gamers) once a new system comes out they discard their old xboxs and PSs  because it's old technology. They don't even care about the switch or others..  Most people that comes to this forum are usually retro hardcore collectors. Not hardcore gamers in that sense of hardcore gamer.  

Edited February 17, 2020 by m-crew

[Steven Pendleton]

12 minutes ago, m-crew said:

I beg to differ, Hardcore gamers are about what the next improvement are and in specs and graphics , yes (collectors)gamers and retro gamers collect all retro consoles.. Like I have mentioned before about my brother and all he's friends. Which are hardcore gamers(on line gamers) once a new system comes out they discard their old xboxs and PSs  because it's old technology. They don't even care about the switch or others.. Anybody that comes to this forum are usually retro hardcore collectors. Not hardcore gamers.   

I accept and respect your definition and opinion, but I'm super biased and can't see a real hardcore throwing away anything ever if they have a choice. I'm also generally though of as being super eccentric.

 

Maybe not having something more exotic, like say a working X68000, but it also depends on how old they are. People who started playing post-Xbox treat games as disposable and throw away their old stuff to get new stuff. Older generation, though... I like to think even those of us born as late as 4th gen (8 months later, in my case) have more appreciation for the preservation of games and appreciate older games and of a wider variety of genres, especially what with the terrible modern industry practices that Tommy is thankfully NOT allowing on the Amico.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[m-crew]

23 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I accept and respect your definition and opinion, but I'm super biased and can't see a real hardcore throwing away anything ever if they have a choice. Maybe not having something more exotic, like say a working X68000, but it also depends on how old they are. People who started playing post-Xbox treat games as disposable and throw away their old stuff to get new stuff. Older generation, though... I like to think even those of us born as late as 4th gen (8 months later, in my case) have more appreciation for the preservation of games and appreciate older games and of a wider variety of genres, especially what with the terrible modern industry practices that Tommy is thankfully NOT allowing on the Amico.

Thank You !!!!Just to let you know how old by brothers and his friends are , trust me they are hardcore gamer's sit for hours and days playing and just come up for air once in awhile lol . My younger brother is 50 born  1968. It sure is a shame that he/they do that with their old systems.. But I luck out if you know what I mean.. lol BTW they all discard there old systems not just my bro.

 

I Think we are lucky to have IE and Tommy trying to break the mold in the modern industry practices. Hey you never know it may catch on to the others once the Amico becomes successful and established in the market. Treat loyal customers honest and fair.  

Edited February 17, 2020 by m-crew

[Steven Pendleton]

5 minutes ago, m-crew said:

Thank You !!!!Just to let you know how old by brothers and his friends are , trust me they are hardcore gamer's sit for hours and days playing and just come up for air once in awhile lol . My younger brother is 50 born  1968. It sure is a shame that he/they do that with their old systems.. But I luck out if you know what I mean.. lol BTW they all discard there old systems not just my bro.

 

I Think we are lucky to have IE and Tommy trying to break the mold in the modern industry practices. Hey you never know it may catch on to the others once the Amico becomes successful and established in the market. Treat loyal customers honest and fair.  

You are super lucky if you get all of their old stuff, especially if they are like "Oh, Neo Turf Masters for Neo Geo AES? We don't need this $25,000 game anymore. You can have it for free, along with the Neo Geo! Same with this $1 million Mega Drive Tetris and this complete X68000!"

 

I really hope the no DLC catches on. I expect it will not, but I can hope.

[m-crew]

16 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

You are super lucky if you get all of their old stuff, especially if they are like "Oh, Neo Turf Masters for Neo Geo AES? We don't need this $25,000 game anymore. You can have it for free, along with the Neo Geo! Same with this $1 million Mega Drive Tetris and this complete X68000!"

 

I really hope the no DLC catches on. I expect it will not, but I can hope.

Yes I have been pretty lucky over the years. Remember when he discards them they are not worth much at that time.  lol 

Edited February 17, 2020 by m-crew

[MrBeefy]

Until the young'uns play and beat games like Ninja Gaiden on NES they will never be hardcore.