Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A

1 hour ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Not during gameplay or to replace the game music.

 

What about say for a wrestling game where with a create a player we can add our own entrance music  (this is pretty much a standard feature in wrestling games)

1 hour ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Our team has been updating parts of the website and replacing some of the old images.

Talking about lights, etc.... 

 

Here's a new one that I thought you all might enjoy.

 

Cool, looks really good, is there a reason the lights don’t follow all the way round the front at the same level? 👍😀

59 minutes ago, Silverbot said:

Cool, looks really good, is there a reason the lights don’t follow all the way round the front at the same level? 👍😀

I would guess component placement inside since it uses passive cooling 

I love the white, black, cyan, and magenta colors. They bring me back to my CGA days.

9 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

There are a few problems with this kind of thing in our eco-system.  Adding online multi-player in video games easily more than doubles the time it takes to make the game and the budget to do so.  Our games would easily go to $20 each instead of $10.  That's a HUGE difference for the market we are intending to focus on.

You also need a LOT of data passed back and forth over servers.  Which means there is a cost associated to that.  That is why big companies are all now charging a monthly fee to play online games.  And those guys can afford to do that and keep it lower because of bulk.  Something we do NOT have (yet!).

 

So $20 minimum for games and $20 per month to play them is not something we are interested in accomplishing with Amico.  All the others are doing similar things... we're trying to be unique and different and we find that for the people who are interested in Amico... they love how we are approaching it.

A few other quick points.  I read ahead and saw Jeff's post about being together.  Nothing can or ever will substitute that.  Also... (and this is VERY IMPORTANT) online gaming tends to form a toxic environment of immature strangers screaming at each other and bullying people.  Completely breaks our TRUST proposition.

So while I understand that folks would potentially like to have this kind of play... for the people we are focusing on... they do not.

 

Hope that helps you understand where we're coming from.  I appreciate your dialog.

 

 

Very understandable!

In the future, though, maybe something like this could be implemented at the system level?

https://parsecgaming.com/sdk/

(Perhaps not the whole streaming approach...rather, the idea of controlling a "local" opponent through the Web.)

Another idea that comes to mind is no public online multiplayer. Rather, players would be limited to adding each other's accounts. Kinda like Friend Codes on the Wii, but a whooooole lot easier. (Clarification: a whole lot easier for the player; not necessarily for the developer)

He begins playing around 9 minutes in.

Lock n chase is one of my favorite games I still wish I could find the cart that has the full Lupin animation death where he collapses in hat like the arcade 

Tommy, don't give the haters your time. They are not worth it.  Sales will speak for itself soon.

I know I said only one game request per week from now on.  This one doesn't count since it's for Vectrex.  Although it would be cool to have this game on Amico as well.  Sorry Tommy, I couldn't resist.  LOL.

@Tommy Tallarico

Mr. Tallarico, I get why you don't want to include online play, and it's totally understandable. It seems that whenever I play a modern game online, I have to mute all of the headsets so that I don't have to listen to all of the vile things that many players are saying. And for arcade style games, this feature shouldn't really be necessary for a good gaming experience anyway.

That said, online leaderboards for some games would be a welcome addition. I'm not sure if this feature has already been considered, but it is a great way to see how you measure up, and is a cornerstone of arcade gaming. I realize that not every game will be arcade style, but for the ones that are, this would be an excellent feature that would not only engage the player and give them something to shoot for, but would also add connectivity to the Intellivision Amico community. And I would think it would be much easier and cheaper to implement than full online multiplayer. 

Anyway, I'm a longtime fan of your game soundtracks (particularly on the Genesis and Sega CD), and am looking forward to the Amico. Thanks. 

Have a look at their FAQ, online leaderboards is one of them.

https://www.intellivisionamico.com/faq

2 hours ago, profholt82 said:

That said, online leaderboards for some games would be a welcome addition. I'm not sure if this feature has already been considered, but it is a great way to see how you measure up, and is a cornerstone of arcade gaming. I realize that not every game will be arcade style, but for the ones that are, this would be an excellent feature that would not only engage the player and give them something to shoot for, but would also add connectivity to the Intellivision Amico community.

That would be cool, even better if you could see your ranking in your city or country during a certain month or year as well, and if you had the top spot, you would get a certificate of some sort😄

On 11/25/2020 at 3:06 PM, Tommy Tallarico said:

Imagine an "app" where you could load in music from a USB and Amico would do an on screen video show as well as light show on the console & controllers (and you could use the controllers to interact or change the visuals.

 

Wouldn't That Be Something?™

 

 

 

If this is really happening, would it be possible to connect your phone via Bluetooth to play music from apps like Spotify on your Amico? 👍😀

3 hours ago, profholt82 said:

@Tommy Tallarico

 

Mr. Tallarico, I get why you don't want to include online play, and it's totally understandable. It seems that whenever I play a modern game online, I have to mute all of the headsets so that I don't have to listen to all of the vile things that many players are saying. And for arcade style games, this feature shouldn't really be necessary for a good gaming experience anyway.

 

That said, online leaderboards for some games would be a welcome addition. I'm not sure if this feature has already been considered, but it is a great way to see how you measure up, and is a cornerstone of arcade gaming. I realize that not every game will be arcade style, but for the ones that are, this would be an excellent feature that would not only engage the player and give them something to shoot for, but would also add connectivity to the Intellivision Amico community. And I would think it would be much easier and cheaper to implement than full online multiplayer. 

 

Anyway, I'm a longtime fan of your game soundtracks (particularly on the Genesis and Sega CD), and am looking forward to the Amico. Thanks. 

Online leaderboards are cool but I’m most looking forward to local leaderboards so I can compete with my family and friends ! Old school style !! 

On 11/25/2020 at 11:01 AM, Tommy Tallarico said:

There are a few problems with this kind of thing in our eco-system.  Adding online multi-player in video games easily more than doubles the time it takes to make the game and the budget to do so.  Our games would easily go to $20 each instead of $10.  That's a HUGE difference for the market we are intending to focus on.

You also need a LOT of data passed back and forth over servers.  Which means there is a cost associated to that.  That is why big companies are all now charging a monthly fee to play online games.  And those guys can afford to do that and keep it lower because of bulk.  Something we do NOT have (yet!).

 

So $20 minimum for games and $20 per month to play them is not something we are interested in accomplishing with Amico.  All the others are doing similar things... we're trying to be unique and different and we find that for the people who are interested in Amico... they love how we are approaching it.

A few other quick points.  I read ahead and saw Jeff's post about being together.  Nothing can or ever will substitute that.  Also... (and this is VERY IMPORTANT) online gaming tends to form a toxic environment of immature strangers screaming at each other and bullying people.  Completely breaks our TRUST proposition.

So while I understand that folks would potentially like to have this kind of play... for the people we are focusing on... they do not.

 

Hope that helps you understand where we're coming from.  I appreciate your dialog.

 

 

But I don't know if you were aware of my specific invention of Netrogames, which was using direct connect data which is straight line data to make a direct connection between two or more different households.  Sprint said as long as everyone involved is on the Sprint network and chooses the direct connect option then all players are connected and as close to straight line (which guarantees lowest ping) as the towers allow directly to each other hence the name Direct Connect.

I understand doing networks the traditional way requires coding each individual game and using a server to expand the range.  The Netroames method saves programming individual code by having a generic joystick trafficker.  The actual data should take less than 56k.  If we were emulating each of four joysticks on the original in television with the ECS being used as a third and fourth joystick, without going into the complexities of intellivision controller coding if all you need are presents and absence bits in nine different pins per controller that's nine times four or 36 bits per frame.  If there are 60 controller frames per second then that would be 2.1 Kb per second approximately, which easily fits under 56k with enough bandwidth to check sync at least that's what they did on the Dreamcast with 56k.

If I remember right either Steve Roney, directly told me, or Keith passed on Steve's message that it makes sense it is more efficient than individually programming the games and we're not exactly gambling millions of dollars on these servers so it's just for the purposes of playing a game.  However since I couldn't guarantee that Sprint Direct Connect goes as as fast as regular Sprint Data Network and I assumed the worst case scenario of dial up speeds they told me check to see what the actual bits per second is in low ping mode.  Roney said it could be done with dial-up but it would take a long time.  It could be guaranteed quicker if they knew they had a much bigger and higher net to work with than dial up.

Well Tex Tiexera, the executive engineer at Sprint at the time, told me that data is currently an option on Sprint Direct Connect, so in television doesn't have to pay Sprint to conform the network a specific way to work with Netrogames.  And whatever speed (in megabits per second, not milliseconds of delay time to receive a bit)  the regular Sprint traffic gets on the normal path, that's the speed you get in Direct Connect data.  The reason why this works is because the regular Network is redundant and backs itself up to be sure it gets there at the cost of instant quickness.  The Sprint Direct Connect takes 30 seconds to establish a straight line connection and then executes it when connected.  It's the exact same speed as a regular network but it's lower ping.  The main cost is a 30 second setup time,  that it only does Sprint to Sprint customers, no landlines, no VoIP lines, no competing cell lines, and a 2400 km limit because 2400 km is eight light milliseconds.

now the exact same technology at all the other same companies is called push to talk so therefore you could have customers connect AT&T line to AT&T line or Verizon line to Verizon line or T-Mobile line to T-Mobile line, which has become bigger because a T-Mobile line and a Sprint line are now the same thing.  As long as you're all on cellular and as long as you're on the same cellular network you could do a low ping connection.  you do not touch the general internet that is used for non cellular traffic.  cellular traffic enters the rest of the internet and exits from it.  That's where all the ping is, in the general internet where you sacrifice quickness for sureness. Push the talk gets the same sureness by taking 30 seconds to establish a connection.

maybe if this becomes successful there would be a cross  network bridge every 50 km so you could mix cell networks and so maybe instead of getting 2400 km of one network you would get 2,000 km of all cell networks.

Yes, I understand the standard internet you have to program for each individual game and you have to do other things to get it to work right.  And yes that would be a pain to add retroactively.  But natural games is designed to take a naturally two-player local game and use a generic low-ping direct connection to turn it to a two-player online game 

I just want to make sure you understand that Netrogames is a very specific way of doing networking that was designed to be a generc joystick trafficker and work.

Hi Tommy, are you planning to have a merchandise warehouse in Europe?  Between taxes and shipping, buying from the United States becomes expensive.  P. S. Happy Thanksgiving to all the guys in the forum.

1 hour ago, Cranker said:

Online leaderboards are cool but I’m most looking forward to local leaderboards so I can compete with my family and friends ! Old school style !! 

Yes I do like the local World aspect where you can compare your score against your age group in your community and expand both age groups and commutity community sizes.

As for Head to Head online play:

Actually, most of my meaningful online games were playing against people I knew offline before we networked (family and  friends) but actually I made more friends online than I did have to censor people to never talk to me again.  2 to 0 

Even though I rarely experience it due to my choice of games, ...

(every online game I play had either nothing of consequence said or had positive relations.  I made a friend for a year on Xbox live I wouldn't have, and I challenged the maker of Avataaahhhh to an online game of that game, beat him, and had a good talk.  I asked what he thinks my connection speed was, when I told him 500 k in/ 200 k out, even he rates his game a 56ok low bandwidth friendliness rating.). 

... I never ran into these troublemakers.  Maybe it's just my choice of games.  Maybe most troublemakers target first person shooters, which I almost never play.  I never experienced any foul mouths during Street Fighter 4.

There could opt in each individual connection for voice connection, so that by default random strangers are silent to you and you to them.  Both sides have to okay the connection to voice connect.  Therefore most of your games will either be with people you know offline, or are speaker and mic silent.

Even though most of the time I never experienced a real bad unsportsmanlike foul mouth player, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I don't know if an Amico would be on the radarscopes of most of these prepubescent Andrew Dice Clays.  They go where the targets are biggest they pick the biggest games on the biggest systems.

Nintendo on their own games by default doesn't let you talk  via voice unless you both okay each other.

I understand some team games need communication, If there are certain things that need to be communicated or does successfully have a great co-op game, maybe only certain words will be activated by your speech and convert to text.  you have certain commands that you like to issue to your friends like "cover me" , "chase the lone runner", "back to the base" "start the assault" you would say certain phrases that you would like to communicate to other people your teammates, and they will individually mark it with a check or x to indicate they will accept or refuse those.

Plus these are speech-to-text commands which are easier to censor then voice files.  For example, Alien Front Online recorded your voice converted to MP3 and then played it online to fit within dial-up restrictions. Maybe it could go speech to text analyze the text for bad words and restrict speech based on T+ or lewder ratings of text.  And these would only be in games where part of the vital strategy is cross teammate communications.

As I said these things could be worked it over time.  also Netrogames requires that you know your opponent's phone number so that might be even more of an incentive to go with Netrogames so you only dial people you personally know.

All this talk about local multiplayer kind of cast a shadow on singleplayer wondering what kind of single player was available.

I would be willing to play a silent game against someone if there was no way to get a bot to play the second person against me.

I see companies program games say the wonderful players and then never program in about or an online opponent to make one player ganes listing on something that must be played multiplayer

On 11/25/2020 at 1:47 AM, Tommy Tallarico said:

Thanks for kind words and support.  Yep, that is their main goal.  To lie and misinform in hopes that people won't like me or Amico.  Nice hobby eh?  

 

And they do pick up a few like minded stalker folks along the way to engage in their hate parade (I think they've made it up to about 10 people now!).  But as you rightfully mentioned, anyone who actually looks into it finds that all the negativity and misinformation disappears.  And for that... we must thank them!  It leads people like you into becoming a part of the positive conversation.  Pretty cool. 

Of course you'll be now labeled a shill who can't think for themselves.  Welcome!

 

Please let me know if you ever have any questions regarding Amico.

 

Thanks!

Haha, don't say that (me being labelled a shill)! Oh well, it doesn't really matter. Part of the issue seems to be that they can't get their heads around the idea that not every games system is aimed at people like them, a lot of people don't care about fancy graphics, and plenty of people, like me, want to see a return to retro-style games and are pretty sick of most of the modern stuff using loads of buttons you have to memorise. And then you wind up dying in the game because you pressed the wrong button! Plus I miss the days of couch co-op on stuff like the N64 and Wii.

Anyway, since you like questions so much, here's a few for you!:

I know you've already touched on online multiplayer, but I feel like something like Fall Guys would be a great fit for the Amico. Obviously Sony snapped up the developers of that game, but imagine a game along those lines, but with local co-op parties joining an online throng of people, something like that seems like it'd be a great fit for the Amico and should be happening ASAP! What do you think?

Could the Amico handle games similar to Zelda: 4 Swords or Pacman Vs? The screens built into the controllers seem like they could enable cool games like that, I could be wrong.

Any chance of an FAQ for game developers interested in developing games for the Amico? In case you're wondering what sort of questions I'd like to see answered, stuff about what options are available in terms of game engines (current and future), how much dev kits are, what the approval process is like (I'm guessing each game needs to be approved, since you wouldn't want to approve a dev and then have them start making violent games etc), what you're looking for in terms of developers and potential games, anything else we need to know. Just as much information as possible really!

I think that's enough questions for now, but I'll try to come up with more for you!

Here's an interesting question for Tommy: if the Amico is a huge success in April, all units are sold and consoles appear on ebay at $600, what would be your position on that?

42 minutes ago, tripletopper said:

But I don't know if you were aware of my specific invention of Netrogames, which was using direct connect data which is straight line data to make a direct connection between two or more different households.  Sprint said as long as everyone involved is on the Sprint network and chooses the direct connect option then all players are connected and as close to straight line (which guarantees lowest ping) as the towers allow directly to each other hence the name Direct Connect.

 

I understand doing networks the traditional way requires coding each individual game and using a server to expand the range.  The Netroames method saves programming individual code by having a generic joystick trafficker.  The actual data should take less than 56k.  If we were emulating each of four joysticks on the original in television with the ECS being used as a third and fourth joystick, without going into the complexities of intellivision controller coding if all you need are presents and absence bits in nine different pins per controller that's nine times four or 36 bits per frame.  If there are 60 controller frames per second then that would be 2.1 Kb per second approximately, which easily fits under 56k with enough bandwidth to check sync at least that's what they did on the Dreamcast with 56k.

 

If I remember right either Steve Roney, directly told me, or Keith passed on Steve's message that it makes sense it is more efficient than individually programming the games and we're not exactly gambling millions of dollars on these servers so it's just for the purposes of playing a game.  However since I couldn't guarantee that Sprint Direct Connect goes as as fast as regular Sprint Data Network and I assumed the worst case scenario of dial up speeds they told me check to see what the actual bits per second is in low ping mode.  Roney said it could be done with dial-up but it would take a long time.  It could be guaranteed quicker if they knew they had a much bigger and higher net to work with than dial up.

 

Well Tex Tiexera, the executive engineer at Sprint at the time, told me that data is currently an option on Sprint Direct Connect, so in television doesn't have to pay Sprint to conform the network a specific way to work with Netrogames.  And whatever speed (in megabits per second, not milliseconds of delay time to receive a bit)  the regular Sprint traffic gets on the normal path, that's the speed you get in Direct Connect data.  The reason why this works is because the regular Network is redundant and backs itself up to be sure it gets there at the cost of instant quickness.  The Sprint Direct Connect takes 30 seconds to establish a straight line connection and then executes it when connected.  It's the exact same speed as a regular network but it's lower ping.  The main cost is a 30 second setup time,  that it only does Sprint to Sprint customers, no landlines, no VoIP lines, no competing cell lines, and a 2400 km limit because 2400 km is eight light milliseconds.

 

now the exact same technology at all the other same companies is called push to talk so therefore you could have customers connect AT&T line to AT&T line or Verizon line to Verizon line or T-Mobile line to T-Mobile line, which has become bigger because a T-Mobile line and a Sprint line are now the same thing.  As long as you're all on cellular and as long as you're on the same cellular network you could do a low ping connection.  you do not touch the general internet that is used for non cellular traffic.  cellular traffic enters the rest of the internet and exits from it.  That's where all the ping is, in the general internet where you sacrifice quickness for sureness. Push the talk gets the same sureness by taking 30 seconds to establish a connection.

 

maybe if this becomes successful there would be a cross  network bridge every 50 km so you could mix cell networks and so maybe instead of getting 2400 km of one network you would get 2,000 km of all cell networks.

 

Yes, I understand the standard internet you have to program for each individual game and you have to do other things to get it to work right.  And yes that would be a pain to add retroactively.  But natural games is designed to take a naturally two-player local game and use a generic low-ping direct connection to turn it to a two-player online game 

 

I just want to make sure you understand that Netrogames is a very specific way of doing networking that was designed to be a generc joystick trafficker and work.

 

Please man, with all sincerity- let this go.  Most of us have no idea what you are actually talking about, and your last messages about this quickly went down a rather dark path.  I hope you are in a better place then you were a month ago but how about we all just enjoy some games?

47 minutes ago, IntelliMission said:

Ecco una domanda interessante per Tommy: se l'Amico ha un enorme successo ad aprile, tutte le unità vengono vendute e le console appaiono su ebay a $ 600, quale sarebbe la tua posizione al riguardo?

I think Tommy has said in the past that he would be happy.

I had a random thought today, and thought I would pop on before I lost it again.

Any chance of seeing 'Alley Cat' or something similar on the Amico? It was probably one of my favourite DOS games, being easy to play and quite a variety of fun mini-levels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alley_Cat_(video_game)

Being from the early eighties I have no idea who would have the rights to the title anymore. There was a really well done (and multi-player!) fan remake in 2018 that I think was quite true to the original, and does show that the game can be just as much fun with multiple players either competing or co-op playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIm6oRhyDrM