Independent Amico Discussion Thread

[bojay1997]

23 minutes ago, 1001lives said:

I've gotten products in the 150-200 range that feel like they are in the 150-200 range. ... That is, budget POS... The plastic is cheap and creaky when you push on it, the device feels light and airy like you can break it by picking it up... Very obvious manufacturing flaws in the molding like bad connection points (where the plastic pieces of the shell meet). 

 

I'm sure a lot of you know what kind of cheap chinese plastic products I'm talking about, with really shoddy parts and gummy buttons/d-pads, etc. 

Sure, but the Xbox One S and Sony PS4 were both $200 this past holiday as is the Switch Lite all the time and I don't think anyone thinks of them as creaky junk even if they are manufactured in China.  The point is, there is good stuff that consumers already own in this price range, so pricing the Amico higher makes it a tougher sell to the casual crowd.

[+Tommy Tallarico]

2 hours ago, Swami said:

2011–2016

Gal Gun series

Xbox 360, PS3, PS4, PS Vita, Nintendo Switch, PC

Inti-Creates

The Gal Gun series has been criticized by western critics due to allowing players to sexually exploit underage women. Inti-Creates was forced by Microsoft to censor the Xbox 360 version due to players being able to look up the girls' skirts, while the PlayStation 3 version remained completely uncensored.[134] The sequel, Gal Gun: Double Peace, which was released internationally, was banned in New Zealand for the same reason.[135]

 

2014

South Park: The Stick of Truth

Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, PC

Obsidian Entertainment, South Park Digital Studios

The game was censored (by Ubisoft's decision) in Europe and Australia due to its depiction of an anal probing by aliens and the player-character performing an abortion. In their place, the game displays a still image of a statue holding its face in its hand, with an explicit description of events depicted in the scene. The German version was specifically censored because of the use of Nazi- and Hitler-related imagery, including swastikas and Nazi salutes, which in that country are outlawed outside of the context of "art or science, research or teaching".[155] The PC version remains completely uncut in Europe.[156]

 

2015

Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number

PC

Dennaton Games

The sequel, like the first Hotline Miami, incorporates a large amount of violence as the player sets to kill off agents of the local mafia, but a preview build for the sequel includes a scene that is set up wherein the player's character then appears to rape a female antagonist, though this is later presented in the context of being part of a staged movie scene. Journalists felt that even though the game made it clear of the scene's setup, the inclusion of this scene went too far in taste levels.[157] Despite some changes and assurances made by the developer, the scene in the game caused the Australian Classification Board to refuse to classify the game, effectively preventing legal sale of the title in that country.[158]

 

2018

Agony

PC, PS4, Xbox One, Nintendo Switch

Madmind Studio

A dark fantasy survival horror video game that puts players into the perspective of a tormented soul within the depths of Hell devoid of any memories whatsoever about its past. The special ability to control people on their path, and possess weak-minded demons, gives players the necessary measures to survive in the extreme conditions they are in.[179] Agony is infamous for being one of only four games to have received the "Adults Only" rating from ESRB due to violence and other extreme graphic content (including gay and lesbian sex scenes and genital physics), following The Punisher, Manhunt 2, and Hatred. The game was re-rated "Mature" after the developers agreed to tone down the violence, which also led to PEGI rating the game 18. A planned "Adults Only" unrated patch for PC was later dropped due to "legal issues".[180] However, on June 6, 2018, the developers said they were "talking with Steam representatives" about offering Agony Unrated as "a separate title produced and published by Madmind Studio and without the involvement of any publishers." For those who already own the original game, this version will be either free DLC or a separate purchase at 99% off, which currently is the highest possible discount on Steam's platform.[181] After announcing the financial problems of the company and canceling the Unrated version of the game, the basic game docked on August 1, 2018, with a considerable amount of updates on the platforms on which it debuted.[182]

And this is merely the tip of the iceberg.  There are dozens more that are much worse than any of the ones listed here.

 

 

[1001lives]

5 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

Sure, but the Xbox One S and Sony PS4 were both $200 this past holiday as is the Switch Lite all the time and I don't think anyone thinks of them as creaky junk even if they are manufactured in China.  The point is, there is good stuff that consumers already own in this price range, so pricing the Amico higher makes it a tougher sell to the casual crowd.

The casual crowd isn't even looking at an Xbox One S or PS4 though. I don't think the marketing is targeting them either. My mom loves farkle, haven't seen a single ad for that on those systems. But I bet that will be on prominent display for board games/etc. with Amico. Especially shaking the dice and tossing them on the screen. That's not an Xbox or PS4 thing. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by 1001lives

[+Tommy Tallarico]

3 minutes ago, 1001lives said:

The casual crowd isn't even looking at an Xbox One S or PS4 though. I don't think the marketing is targeting them either. My mom loves farkle, haven't seen a single ad for that on those systems. But I bet that will be on prominent display for board games/etc. with Amico. Especially shaking the dice and tossing them on the screen. That's not an Xbox or PS4 thing. 

Yes.  This is the thing that I think a lot of folks in here may be forgetting.

 

You could GIVE AWAY a PS4, XBOX One S or Switch to non-gamers or casual gamers and they STILL wouldn't play it as the controllers are too difficult, the menu screens are too complex, the software is too expensive and not curated, no content for 2 - 7 year old kids for the most part, adult and violent content that parents would prefer not to have their young children potentially have access to (the average non-gaming mom doesn't take the time to set Parental Controls as they are extremely non-user friendly), etc.
 

[MrBeefy]

5 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

Sure, but the Xbox One S and Sony PS4 were both $200 this past holiday as is the Switch Lite all the time and I don't think anyone thinks of them as creaky junk even if they are manufactured in China.  The point is, there is good stuff that consumers already own in this price range, so pricing the Amico higher makes it a tougher sell to the casual crowd.

Some people will still need to have their Wii pried from their cold dead hands too. I know someone sold their unmoddable one extremely quickly here recently. I wonder if second hand Wii market will be a problem? You can get them cheap and get a bunch of casual games cheap. Add in one family member who doesn't mind modding and the hunt for the casual games is even easier. Heck Just Dance sold more on the Wii so some may not be ready to move on from the Wii. 🤷‍♂️

[+Tommy Tallarico]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

I'm sure some of the features they've added will be cool once we figure it out, but I don't know (because we just don't know!) if it was worth the extra $50. I would rather buy a $50 cheaper console than one with some flashy gimmicks that costs $50 more (don't know if they are gimmicks yet got to wait for the reveal).

I've stated it a few different times... but don't mind repeating it again.  We decided to do a massive upgrade on the touchscreens.  Quality over "cheap".  These are the decisions that are being made.  It's not "feature creep".  That is trying to add more and more new options or brand new variables.  We are not doing that.  We are investing heavily into the quality of the product.  From the plastics to the screens to the look and feel.  Not features... just quality. 

Our research and more importantly our retailers have told us that our pricing for such a quality product is definitely in line with what families are willing to spend on a brand new video game console that is fun for the entire family.  Remember... the Wii sold at $249 14 years ago (about $320 in todays money) and the games were much more expensive, only one controller, etc. 

VALUE and TRUST with our customers are the 2 most important things within Intellivision. 

And another thing to mention is that consoles ALWAYS come out a little higher in the beginning and as the manufacturing prices go down... so does the price.  Starting at $249 (or whatever) and getting to $199 the following Christmas isn't the "death" of the machine.  It's what EVERY hardware system does as they try to pack as much epicness into the box as they can... knowing that eventually components and parts will come down... which will give them room to move the pricing down as well.  The majority of people who will own a PS5 and XBOX X will NOT be buying them this Christmas... and it's mostly because of the high price.  In fact... they are only making 1 million PS5's... so if history tells us anything... only 1% of the PS's sold for the next generation will be sold in 2020!  They'll wait a few years in hopes that it will eventually go down a $100 or so.  It's taken this generation about 7 years to get under the $200 mark (and that isn't for the best machines... only hacked up lower quality versions).  Folks on the bleeding edge... the first adapters... those are the folks who dive in on launch.  No reason to treat us any different.  I'll pack as much quality into the box as I can... because at the end of the day... THAT is what is the most important thing.  A quality product.  Not the amount of discount Amazon.com is going to give.  Early adapters have already proven they are excited enough to jump in at $299 for a great value.  That was a HUGE risk we took... but one that more than paid off.

It's a fine line... and one that we are constantly getting feedback on and paying attention to.  Everything we are doing is for a reason.  And although it's impossible to see the future... we're also not just guessing or hoping that retailers and potential customers are willing to take the leap for what we are offering.

I look forward to folks getting it in their hands this year.  Hopefully you'll then understand why we are making the decisions we are making.  I could have easily kept the price at $150 - $199... and folks would have complained like crazy and destroyed us before we even had a chance to shine.  Great quality out of the box will help to build Value and Trust.  If people feel they are getting great value and they trust our content... $20 - $30 price difference at the levels we're at doesn't make a difference.

Wait til middle America mom finds out that EVERY game on the system is $10 or less, comes with 2 controllers, up to 8 for free through mobile, 5 quality games on board.  They automatically start doing the math in their head and aren't going to say... Hmm... if this was only $20 or $30 less I would get it.  More like... WOW!!  What an amazing value for what we're getting.  And with all games under $10 and NO Loot boxes, DLC, in-app purchasing, etc... you can see where their heads are really going to be at.

 

At the end of the day the responsibility lies 100% on us to ensure our messaging gets across.  And that's the part of the equation we REALLY have in spades!  Super successful Ex-Nintendo, Mattel and Disney folks are driving that train!  I like our chances.

 

I totally understand and respect where you and your wife are coming from.  You are the majority of folks who would prefer to wait and see and jump in when the price is more to your liking.  Which is TOTALLY fine.  Not everyone considers themselves early adapters.  Nothing at all wrong with that.

 

 

 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

48 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Some people will still need to have their Wii pried from their cold dead hands too. I know someone sold their unmoddable one extremely quickly here recently. I wonder if second hand Wii market will be a problem? You can get them cheap and get a bunch of casual games cheap. Add in one family member who doesn't mind modding and the hunt for the casual games is even easier. Heck Just Dance sold more on the Wii so some may not be ready to move on from the Wii. 🤷‍♂️

I don't think people are going to see Amico in the store shelves and then say... "Nah... pass...  let me just hit Ebay or someones garage sale and buy a 14 year old video game system that no one is barely supporting (especially Nintendo)."

People who haven't moved on from the Wii proves my point about casuals and non-gamers willing to purchase a video game console.  There hasn't BEEN anything to replace a 14 year old system... so they don't.  We give them that option with an even bigger library of games they are looking to play (and with friends and family members no matter what their skill level).  Also important to note that over 25% of all people who purchased a Wii... NEVER bought a game for it.  They paid $249 for a bowling tech demo... and LOVED it.

 

 

[bojay1997]

1 hour ago, 1001lives said:

The casual crowd isn't even looking at an Xbox One S or PS4 though. I don't think the marketing is targeting them either. My mom loves farkle, haven't seen a single ad for that on those systems. But I bet that will be on prominent display for board games/etc. with Amico. Especially shaking the dice and tossing them on the screen. That's not an Xbox or PS4 thing. 

I was responding to the previous post about how lots of things in the $150 to $200 range are somehow junk so therefore the $230 price is fine.  Maybe it's fine and maybe it's not.  We'll find out soon enough.  Doesn't change the fact that lots of existing good products (and not just consoles) are in this price range that are not junk.  

[MarioMan88]

24 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

I was responding to the previous post about how lots of things in the $150 to $200 range are somehow junk so therefore the $230 price is fine.  Maybe it's fine and maybe it's not.  We'll find out soon enough.  Doesn't change the fact that lots of existing good products (and not just consoles) are in this price range that are not junk.  

I can only go off what market research I have exposure to, my wife and her thinking. We have 4 kids, all girls. When a video game console or toy(like arcade1up games) hits or is at the $199 price point she has no hesitations and even encourages me to buy said consoles or toys haha. 

[bojay1997]

1 minute ago, MarioMan88 said:

I can only go off what market research I have exposure to, my wife and her thinking. We have 4 kids, all girls. When a video game console or toy(like arcade1up games) hits or is at the $199 price point she has no hesitations and even encourages me to buy said consoles or toys haha. 

Yep, I'm one of those people that actually enjoys heading out after dinner on Thanksgiving/Black Friday and it's unbelievable how popular the $199 console bundles have been in the past 5-6 years.  I mean I literally see people buying baskets full of them and when I've asked why they are buying so many, I hear a lot of them say that they are giving them as gifts or finally jumping into the current gen.  It really seems to be a magical price point for a variety of reasons.  

[MarioMan88]

14 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

Yep, I'm one of those people that actually enjoys heading out after dinner on Thanksgiving/Black Friday and it's unbelievable how popular the $199 console bundles have been in the past 5-6 years.  I mean I literally see people buying baskets full of them and when I've asked why they are buying so many, I hear a lot of them say that they are giving them as gifts or finally jumping into the current gen.  It really seems to be a magical price point for a variety of reasons.  

It is the sweet spot for this machine for the masses. I know Tommy and team have research and that think folks will not blink at extra 20-50 bucks and most may not when looking at bundled value, 2 controllers and 5 games. That is why I can only say how my wife thinks, and $199 is spot on impluse buy. I’ve already pre ordered the founders edition coz I’m a collector and fan of what the system is trying to be. I, however am about to turn 47 and am NOT Intellivision target demographic.

 

We also enjoy the post(now thanksgiving)deals 🤣

[jcalder8]

1 hour ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

I don't think people are going to see Amico in the store shelves and then say... "Nah... pass...  let me just hit Ebay or someones garage sale and buy a 14 year old video game system that no one is barely supporting (especially Nintendo)."

People who haven't moved on from the Wii proves my point about casuals and non-gamers willing to purchase a video game console.  There hasn't BEEN anything to replace a 14 year old system... so they don't.  We give them that option with an even bigger library of games they are looking to play (and with friends and family members no matter what their skill level).  Also important to note that over 25% of all people who purchased a Wii... NEVER bought a game for it.  They paid $249 for a bowling tech demo... and LOVED it.

 

 

Also having the games be digital will make it easier to buy and not have to head out to a store and try to remember what game it was you wanted in the first place. Then looking at the Wii market you have to look on ebay or amazon for those games because they aren't readily available, at least not the ones the casual person is looking for. With the Amico you can be playing Sorry with friends and someone say let's plat Life and you can immediately buy, download and play(just using those games as examples since none have been announced yet).

[+Swami]

6 minutes ago, jcalder8 said:

Also having the games be digital will make it easier to buy and not have to head out to a store and try to remember what game it was you wanted in the first place. Then looking at the Wii market you have to look on ebay or amazon for those games because they aren't readily available, at least not the ones the casual person is looking for. With the Amico you can be playing Sorry with friends and someone say let's plat Life and you can immediately buy, download and play(just using those games as examples since none have been announced yet).

My experience with used Xbox 360 games at Walmart and Target is that they are twice as expensive as they are online. They are even twice as expensive as the online stores for Walmart and Target. The used games don’t have any prices on them, so I would go by what the website said and ended up telling them I didn’t want them when the prices came up at the register. I think they’re hoping folks just buy them and don’t think about what they’re paying. 

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, bojay1997 said:

I was responding to the previous post about how lots of things in the $150 to $200 range are somehow junk so therefore the $230 price is fine.  Maybe it's fine and maybe it's not.  We'll find out soon enough.  Doesn't change the fact that lots of existing good products (and not just consoles) are in this price range that are not junk.  

That's why I was worried about the upgraded features pushing the price into that range. I'm sure it is higher quality and will be great, but will it be something that instead of selling 3 consoles at the lower price now they sell 2 at the higher price. (Random numbers but how many sales will be lost on that?)

 

Considering this is a new product from a company that is getting back in 'the game', do people think it would have been better to test the market, and THEN later make a 'pro controller' with the upgraded features at a higher price?

 

[bojay1997]

2 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

That's why I was worried about the upgraded features pushing the price into that range. I'm sure it is higher quality and will be great, but will it be something that instead of selling 3 consoles at the lower price now they sell 2 at the higher price. (Random numbers but how many sales will be lost on that?)

 

Considering this is a new product from a company that is getting back in 'the game', do people think it would have been better to test the market, and THEN later make a 'pro controller' with the upgraded features at a higher price?

 

I do wonder about how much time any new product, especially a console from a company that doesn't have an existing presence in the market will have to reach critical mass.  Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony can all afford to burn lots of cash marketing and promoting something that won't take off right away and can wait out a price drop from manufacturing efficiencies or technology advances.  I don't know if a third party product will ever have that luxury, so getting out there at a $200 price point may well have been better, even if the controllers weren't perfect.  

[MrBeefy]

2 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

I do wonder about how much time any new product, especially a console from a company that doesn't have an existing presence in the market will have to reach critical mass.  Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony can all afford to burn lots of cash marketing and promoting something that won't take off right away and can wait out a price drop from manufacturing efficiencies or technology advances.  I don't know if a third party product will ever have that luxury, so getting out there at a $200 price point may well have been better, even if the controllers weren't perfect.  

And they can sell the consoles at a loss. I don't think that is the case here. Hence the price fluctuation.

 

Guess it could depend on who is buying what too. If they can sell them to the stores that takes some of that burden too. Meaning it would be on Walmart or Target, etc. to worry about moving them while IE has the money from the stores. With stores having special versions I wonder if that is some of the case here? Heard of stuff like that before but don't know enough about it.

[+Swami]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

That's why I was worried about the upgraded features pushing the price into that range. I'm sure it is higher quality and will be great, but will it be something that instead of selling 3 consoles at the lower price now they sell 2 at the higher price. (Random numbers but how many sales will be lost on that?)

 

Considering this is a new product from a company that is getting back in 'the game', do people think it would have been better to test the market, and THEN later make a 'pro controller' with the upgraded features at a higher price?

 

I think making a cheap controller would probably ruin the experience and likely cause long term harm to their reputation. I think it would be like seeing how people like composite before going to HDMI. $200 is a lot of money and going to make people think before buying and $230 even more so, but it’s still pretty cheap for a new game console. 

[MrBeefy]

4 minutes ago, Swami said:

I think making a cheap controller would probably ruin the experience and likely cause long term harm to their reputation. I think it would be like seeing how people like composite before going to HDMI. 

I didn't think the original ones looked cheap. But I guess I haven't seen any of them in action to tell the difference. I kind of see it like the Wiimote vs the Wiimote MotionPlus (only that was an added funtion).

 

If the gameplay is the same fun it won't matter as much and I thought the idea wasn't to stare at the small screen all the time anyways.

[SegaSnatcher]

6 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

See I think the feature creep and rising price point will make it a little more difficult for it to get a hold in the market. Mainly because at the $180 range it was a complete no brainer. Extreme value with the core co-op, family friendly etc. The now around $230 mark makes it less appealing.

 

Is there still value there? Definitely, but now you will be competing with the likes of the Switch in terms of making it a second device in the household. Nintendo has many years of being in the game.

 

Now I do think there is a market outside of us who may be looking for a second game box. We just don't know if they will buy it yet so I don't think we can say it will or won't flop. But going back to the price point. I think it would be best for Amico on many fronts to keep it below Switch prices. Nintendo has a family friendly reputation even if they are starting to or have already have abandoned it.

 

October is going to be fun and I've seen enough retro stuff (minus Cloudy) and want to see the other games that should appeal to that casual crowd. 

And most importantly these people still don't even know Amico exists.  Its still mainly the hardcore gamers who know about Amico.  I just wonder if waiting until E3 to get the word out to the more casuals is a smart move considering everything else that will be announced around that time.  With all that noise how is Amico gonna get the attention of all the big gaming websites and youtube channels?  Will Amico have a live press conference at E3?  If the only people talking about Amico is us and some small time youtubers come E3 time that won't do any favors for Amico.

[SegaSnatcher]

1 hour ago, bojay1997 said:

I do wonder about how much time any new product, especially a console from a company that doesn't have an existing presence in the market will have to reach critical mass.  Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony can all afford to burn lots of cash marketing and promoting something that won't take off right away and can wait out a price drop from manufacturing efficiencies or technology advances.  I don't know if a third party product will ever have that luxury, so getting out there at a $200 price point may well have been better, even if the controllers weren't perfect.  

100% Correct,  INTV cannot afford to just wait out a couple months and drop prices like a Nintendo.  Basically Amico needs to be a hit right out the gate.  I also believe that original $189.99 price point is what they need/should try to hit.  Once you start creeping towards $230 you are getting closer to Switch home console price point which will likely see $250 SKUs come this holiday season.  

I'm liking the idea of this INTV mall tour Tommy has planned this Summer. This could be very helpful in its potential success.

Edited February 10, 2020 by SegaSnatcher

[MrBeefy]

12 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

And most importantly these people still don't even know Amico exists.  Its still mainly the hardcore gamers who know about Amico.  I just wonder if waiting until E3 to get the word out to the more casuals is a smart move considering everything else that will be announced around that time.  With all that noise how is Amico gonna get the attention of all the big gaming websites and youtube channels?  Will Amico have a live press conference at E3?  If the only people talking about Amico is us and some small time youtubers come E3 time that won't do any favors for Amico.

Um do casuals even know what E3 is or care to find out? Even with an awesome splash and coverage on gaming channels etc. Wouldn't that just be more PR for us gamers who have been around and not the intended market?

 

🤷‍♂️

[SegaSnatcher]

Just now, MrBeefy said:

Um do casuals even know what E3 is or care to find out? Even with an awesome splash and coverage on gaming channels etc. Wouldn't that just be more PR for us gamers who have been around and not the intended market?

 

🤷‍♂️

They might not watch the E3 coverage, but they might hear it through the grapevine from their more gaming friends or family members.  Word of mouth is what Amico is going to need for sure.

[MrBeefy]

Just now, SegaSnatcher said:

They might not watch the E3 coverage, but they might hear it through the grapevine from their more gaming friends or family members.  Word of mouth is what Amico is going to need for sure.

Yeah, but wouldn't that also mean they've been hearing about the Switch and stuff too? And really until these two threads I've never heard of Nintendo as an active adult system so I feel like with everything E3 isn't going to have the reach to the intended masses.

 

It will be good for us and other gamers who don't know much or want to know more. But casuals not sure on that.

[+Swami]

4 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Yeah, but wouldn't that also mean they've been hearing about the Switch and stuff too? And really until these two threads I've never heard of Nintendo as an active adult system so I feel like with everything E3 isn't going to have the reach to the intended masses.

 

It will be good for us and other gamers who don't know much or want to know more. But casuals not sure on that.

I think they’ll look for review articles and videos on it before they buy it. 

[+Swami]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

I didn't think the original ones looked cheap. But I guess I haven't seen any of them in action to tell the difference. I kind of see it like the Wiimote vs the Wiimote MotionPlus (only that was an added funtion).

 

If the gameplay is the same fun it won't matter as much and I thought the idea wasn't to stare at the small screen all the time anyways.

I thinking more along the lines of responsiveness, connectivity along with solid construction. Don’t want the stain of the Ouya’s original controller on you. That seems to be the result of trying too hard to keep a price point. Not that I’m thrilled it’s gone from 180 to 230.