Independent Amico Discussion Thread

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, Tavi said:

I am thinking there are a lot more kids that can figure out how to plug a console cord back into a wall socket then can hack a console password.

Plus, depending on how it is handled, say if they include something like a countdown that pops up occasionally in the corner of the screen 'You have XX minutes of playtime left' it would ease the kid into it and be a little less traumatizing then having someone just shut the console off abruptly and tell you your time is up.

You can always yell, argue and plead with a parent, but it is considerably less effective doing it with a console. I imagine kids understand that so there would be less direct conflict when the programmed time limit is reached.

I wasn't specific enough sorry. When I said unplug i meant to take the cord. Yeah if you just unplug it they will plug back in. Remove the cord or power brick...different game.

 

Once again, the avoidance of conflict is often more of a problem. Fighting in front of your kids can be a good thing too if you all fight properly. It allows the kids to see you will have conflict and can resolve it. Now if you can't have a proper fight it won't work that way. Look into some John Gottman research marriage books  He could predict with 91-94% accuracy if a couple would get a divorce based on watching ONE arguement. (Why Marriages Succeed or Fail is one of his books) Communication is key. Talking to Amico is not the answer...

 

Speaking of talking to Amico, has anyone thought about naming their console? I mean it's a friend after all right? If I get the red one, I think I'm going to name it Mario, since that's the name of the friendliest Italian I know. 🤣

Edited February 11, 2020 by MrBeefy

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

According to Amico research, more money is spent on mobile games than games for playstation, xbox, switch combined.

How much is spent per person? Just saying more is spent is potentially misleading as it isn't specifying amount per person. You may have 1 billion casual people spend $1 on their mobile games.

 

You may then have 1000 'hardcore gamers' spend $900 on their games. Yeah that is only $900,000 vs $1 billion. Doesn't factor in now that you are expecting those same casuals to spend way more than they are used to, while the hardcore crowd is like, "eh been there done that."

 

I also not a fan of research I can't see. Or read. Or doesn't come from a peer reviewed journal. I know marketing stuff can be different but before just adopting that numbers mean everything remember to think about other factors. The numbers I just pulled were random and only used (in Atari lingo) for illustrative purposes. 🤣

 

[spoonman]

14 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

I think you may be wrongly assuming that Earthworm Jim is going to be a 2D side scrolling platform game using our 64 position d-pad.

 

That would be a wrong assumption. 

🐄

 

So my initial fear has now been confirmed.

 

I might be wrong, but I'm still going to guess that 99% of people that want another EWJ game, want not only a strictly 2D EWJ, but also one that has hand drawn dot pixel style graphics as seen in EWJ 1 & 2.

 

And I am one of the biggest EWJ fans. I've absolutely loved the game since day one. I've bought just about all of the worthy ports...

 

Hearing of a new EWJ game, by the original team no less, had me excited. Then I saw the controller that was expected of us to control Jim with, and now a confirmation of "not a 2D side scrolling platformer" really kind of took the wind out of my sails. EWJ's highlights, and I think the main reason it's had success was because of the beautiful hand drawn dot-pixel animation, and the balanced game play and controls. The music too.. God forbid I leave that out on a reply to Tommy's comment!!

 

Let us not forget Jim's that foray into the 3D world with *shudders* Earthworm Jim 64. Oh, the humanity!

Had it even been well designed it still would not have a "proper" Earthworm Jim game. 

I tnink I speak for many fans when I say..we want more of this..

 

and this...

 

[MrBeefy]

9 minutes ago, spoonman said:

 

So my initial fear has now been confirmed.

 

I might be wrong, but I'm still going to guess that 99% of people that want another EWJ game, want not only a strictly 2D EWJ, but also one that has hand drawn dot pixel style graphics as seen in EWJ 1 & 2.

 

And I am one of the biggest EWJ fans. I've absolutely loved the game since day one. I've bought just about all of the worthy ports...

 

Hearing of a new EWJ game, by the original team no less, had me excited. Then I saw the controller that was expected of us to control Jim with, and now a confirmation of "not a 2D side scrolling platformer" really kind of took the wind out of my sails. EWJ's highlights, and I think the main reason it's had success was because of the beautiful hand drawn dot-pixel animation, and the balanced game play and controls. The music too.. God forbid I leave that out on a reply to Tommy's comment!!

 

Let us not forget Jim's that foray into the 3D world with *shudders* Earthworm Jim 64. Oh, the humanity!

Had it even been well designed it still would not have a "proper" Earthworm Jim game. 

I tnink I speak for many fans when I say..we want more of this..

 

and this...

 

 

 

Before getting too disheartened take another look at EWJ2. My bro played it at my place a week ago. It in a lot of ways is more like a collection of mini games. Very few levels are similar.

 

Maybe instead of trying to use the mushroom to bounce the pups you now use the motion controls to toss them to safety. Maybe use tilt controls in a racing type level from the first game. Maybe a normal platforming level.

 

Play EWJ2 again and think about it as a collection of mini games. I never thought about it that way until a week ago when I was thinking of the new Amico one.

 

Side note...my son found the 'Well Done' cows to be quite funny.

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by MrBeefy
Side note...

[+kevtris]

I am guessing for the $5-10 per game, there won't be enough development budget per title to make them really long and in depth like the original EWJ titles were.  So a collection of the EWJ style minigames might be what it ends up being.  The development budget is what's going to dictate the kind of games we'll see on the system.   Only so much game can be created with the budget.

[+Swami]

9 minutes ago, kevtris said:

I am guessing for the $5-10 per game, there won't be enough development budget per title to make them really long and in depth like the original EWJ titles were.  So a collection of the EWJ style minigames might be what it ends up being.  The development budget is what's going to dictate the kind of games we'll see on the system.   Only so much game can be created with the budget.

They are going to be fairly small games. About 300 MB it sounds like, so about the size of a medium sized Wii DVD game. Family Feud Decades was 300 MB.

[roots.genoa]

10 hours ago, Tavi said:

You are skipping over one feature of parental control that I suspect will be very practical and of interest to some parents, the ability to limit play time on the console.

Well, that's the whole point of the Switch's parental control mobile app. Even though Tommy explained Amico will provide a lot more options, like rewarding more play time for instance.

[spoonman]

2 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Before getting too disheartened take another look at EWJ2. My bro played it at my place a week ago. It in a lot of ways is more like a collection of mini games. Very few levels are similar.

 

Maybe instead of trying to use the mushroom to bounce the pups you now use the motion controls to toss them to safety. Maybe use tilt controls in a racing type level from the first game. Maybe a normal platforming level.

 

Play EWJ2 again and think about it as a collection of mini games. I never thought about it that way until a week ago when I was thinking of the new Amico one.

 

Side note...my son found the 'Well Done' cows to be quite funny.

 

 

EWJ 2 is still very much a 2D platformer though. Just with some added bonus/filler style stages in the form of the 3 Peter Puppy stages, but those aren't counted towards any of the game's 9 main levels. To break it down:

Level 1 - Anything but Tangerines (8 minutes)

Level 2 - Lorenzen's Soil (10 minutes)

-------- - puppy 1 Part 1 (7 minutes)

Level 3 - Villi People (13 minutes) sort of mimics the underwater shooting of EWJ1, with some nice bonus stuff.

Level 4 - The Flying King (7 minutes) isomeric shooting

-------- - Peter Puppy Part 2 (9 minutes)

Level 5 - Udderly Abducted (17 minutes) 

Level 6 - inflated Head (5 minutes) plays a bit like the levels in SMW where Mario inflates with air.

Level 7 - ISO 9000 (6 minutes)

-------- - Puppy Love Part 3 (11 minutes)

Level 8 - Level Ate (8 minutes)

Level 9 - See Jim Run, Run Jim Run (3 minutes) Boss level, race (not unlike Sonic VS Metal Sonic)

 

 

I will admit that there is a bit more puzzle element thrown in along with the platforming, and the weird addition of the isometric shooting/bomb level, but without those it would have likely been a better game. I don't know many EWJ fans that like that level, and could do with less of the Peter Puppy stuff as well.

 

I still feel that EWJ Special Edition was the absolute pinnicle of the series. It was enhanced in many ways over the original version. More animation, more effects, samples, a new ending, and Redbook audio. The Sega CD version fetches some pretty high prices these days. I'd recommend the Win 95 CD version (not the DOS version!) It's nearly identical to the SCD version, albeit with higher color/less dither, like the SNES port, but without the cool line scroll (wavy water) effect underwater... I guess PC's couldn't pull that off!!

 

As a fan you can't help but be a bit worried about the series based on what has been said. Not to mention the last few "not 2D" Jim attempts have been less than ideal, to put it nicely. Earthworm Jim 64 = atrocious, Earthworm Jim PSP (canceled and looked terrible) 

 

 

2 hours ago, kevtris said:

I am guessing for the $5-10 per game, there won't be enough development budget per title to make them really long and in depth like the original EWJ titles were.  So a collection of the EWJ style minigames might be what it ends up being.  The development budget is what's going to dictate the kind of games we'll see on the system.   Only so much game can be created with the budget.

Exactly. I mentioned my concern about the limited amount they will charge on a YouTube comment on one of Tommy's interviews. I'm not sure the budget of the 16-bit versions of EWJ/EWJ2, but they both sold for $60 at launch. (Roughly $120 with inflation calculated in). 

[1001lives]

I think the EWJ fear may be a little misguided. There's no one else that would do it more justice than the original team. You couldn't ask for a better scenario as an EWJ fan. 

 

EWJ may be a bigger/more expensive title for all we know. It's getting a dedicated physical release, too. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by 1001lives

[mr_me]

They might make an excellent game but if it's not a side scrolling platformer some people will be disappointed.  I like shorter games, less content, high quality gameplay with replay value.

[+Tommy Tallarico]

So, to wrap up the past 24 hours...
 

 

1.  Independent marketing research and focus group testing means nothing...  at least not when we do it. 

 

2.  The original Earthworm Jim team is incapable of creating a good Earthworm Jim game.

 

3.  All of the Parental Control issues that everyone complains about aren't really there.

 

4.  Someone's wife, dad or friend doesn't like the idea of the system (having never played it) so there is going to be no appeal to anyone and it's going to be a failure.

 

5.  An untapped market means there is nothing to tap and no money to make there (because someone else would have already done it).

 

6.  Using a touch screen is harder than the Wii.

 

7.  Marketing to family and moms is somehow suggesting that they are stupid.

 

8.  People can play the same exact games on mobile or tablets so they won't buy Amico.  They care nothing about playing together with other friends or family... only solitary mobile games.

 

9.  All the data and research about what people spend in gaming (which is easily Googled) is incorrect and easily debunked against our mission.

 

10. Games that we pay 100% for will not have enough margin for ourselves or have big budgets (even though we control the budgets and don't mind taking a loss to support hardware & future software sales).

Damn!  I knew I was doing something wrong.

On my way to the office now to fire everyone and shut the whole project down.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

😋

 

 

p.s.  Before some folks get all uppity because I made a joke... please calm down before you start typing.  I don't take any offense in folks discussing the potential challenges and short-comings of the machine.  I know the road ahead is a tough one and everything is stacked against us... we are the major underdog.  Personally... I like being the underdog... they don't see ya coming and it makes the victories even that much more sweet.  We don't have all of the answers and part of becoming successful is the ability to change and learn and adjust on the fly if patterns start to show themselves.  We don't have all the endless amounts of money, marketing and infrastructure as the others do (btw... how is that working out for Google?).  What we do have is an amazing team (which keeps growing every week) of super passionate and experienced folks who are dedicated to make this the best it can be.  Hopefully most of you will be cheering for us to WIN as opposed to hoping we FAIL.  If you'd like to see us FAIL... I'd be interested in knowing why.  Please feel free to respond directly to that.

Thanks for having the passion to continuing talking about what we're doing.  The fact that folks are doing that (either for or against) shows that we are on to something and have your interest either way.  I appreciate the dedication and time everyone takes to discuss it.

 

 

 

[Jeffrey Bouchard]

Will the original EWJ games at least 1 and 2 be available on the Amico at some point? Would really like to play them again and in most cases finish them.

[+Swami]

1 hour ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

So, to wrap up the past 24 hours...
 

 

1.  Independent marketing research and focus group testing means nothing...  at least not when we do it. 

 

2.  The original Earthworm Jim team is incapable of creating a good Earthworm Jim game.

 

3.  All of the Parental Control issues that everyone complains about aren't really there.

 

4.  Someone's wife, dad or friend doesn't like the idea of the system (having never played it) so there is going to be no appeal to anyone and it's going to be a failure.

 

5.  An untapped market means there is nothing to tap and no money to make there (because someone else would have already done it).

 

6.  Using a touch screen is harder than the Wii.

 

7.  Marketing to family and moms is somehow suggesting that they are stupid.

 

8.  People can play the same exact games on mobile or tablets so they won't buy Amico.  They care nothing about playing together with other friends or family... only solitary mobile games.

 

9.  All the data and research about what people spend in gaming (which is easily Googled) is incorrect and easily debunked against our mission.

 

10. Games that we pay 100% for will not have enough margin for ourselves or have big budgets (even though we control the budgets and don't mind taking a loss to support hardware & future software sales).

Damn!  I knew I was doing something wrong.

On my way to the office now to fire everyone and shut the whole project down.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

😋

 

 

p.s.  Before some folks get all uppity because I made a joke... please calm down before you start typing.  I don't take any offense in folks discussing the potential challenges and short-comings of the machine.  I know the road ahead is a tough one and everything is stacked against us... we are the major underdog.  Personally... I like being the underdog... they don't see ya coming and it makes the victories even that much more sweet.  We don't have all of the answers and part of becoming successful is the ability to change and learn and adjust on the fly if patterns start to show themselves.  We don't have all the endless amounts of money, marketing and infrastructure as the others do (btw... how is that working out for Google?).  What we do have is an amazing team (which keeps growing every week) of super passionate and experienced folks who are dedicated to make this the best it can be.  Hopefully most of you will be cheering for us to WIN as opposed to hoping we FAIL.  If you'd like to see us FAIL... I'd be interested in knowing why.  Please feel free to respond directly to that.

Thanks for having the passion to continuing talking about what we're doing.  The fact that folks are doing that (either for or against) shows that we are on to something and have your interest either way.  I appreciate the dedication and time everyone takes to discuss it.

 

 

 

And several pages about parental controls ended with the revelation that parents should communicate with their kids. If only we’d known that 20 years ago parental controls wouldn’t have been necessary. Either that or parents don’t need set them in the first place. 

[atm94404]

22 hours ago, 1001lives said:

You will have to produce some hard data to support this. Because as of now, this take completely invalidates anything you've said thus far. Nintendo marketed HARDCORE to moms and grandmas and families, not gamers, and not just kids.

 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-dec-25-fi-momwii25-story.html

As someone pointed out, the story kind of proves the point that Nintendo used gamers (trained "Mom Gamers") to introduce the console to those non-gamers.

But I'm glad you brought up "hard data".  When people throw around conclusions to studies "like 94% of gamers are X" or better yet "93.7%" to make it sound extra science-y, I'm always on alert.  I want a link to an actual study or poll, not just a conclusion.  I also see people intermingling different numbers (like the number of total gamers in the world and those that said a controller was the barrier a console) and that further confuses matters.   When someone alludes to the conclusion of a poll or study, I want to know the specifics.  What was the sample size?  What was the sample population?  What were the exact questions asked?  How was it conducted?  Was it over the phone?  A questionnaire?  An online poll?  If it was online, what kind of website was it on?  Who would see it, could you verify unique individuals or could it be spammed, etc.   Without knowing how big a study was, how it was conducted, who conducted, etc.  you have no way of knowing if it really means what people are representing that it means.  A conclusion drawn from data is only as good as the data. 

And even then, the conclusions drawn from the data are still often up to debate.  I had a Middle School teacher who showed how the same data could be made to look very different.  It was a story from a newspaper about an "international racing challenge".  It said countries brought their best cars to compete in a friendly race mainly for bragging rights.  It then noted that the U.S. entry came in second to last while the car from the USSR (this was in the 80s) came in second.   The teacher then asked us who came out better?  Most of the students said the USSR car.  Then the teacher revealed it was a story from a USSR paper (Pravda, I think) and it was a two car race, so the US car came in first and the USSR came in second (last).  The story was true but misleading if you didn't know the full circumstances of the data.  Or as Mark Twain said  (although he "appropriated" it from someone else): "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Edited February 11, 2020 by atm94404
typo

[+Swami]

16 minutes ago, atm94404 said:

As someone pointed out, the story kind of proves the point that Nintendo used gamers (trained "Mom Gamers") to introduce the console to those non-gamers.

But I'm glad you brought up "hard data".  When people throw around conclusions to studies "like 94% of gamers are X" or better yet "93.7%" to make it sound extra science-y, I'm always on alert.  I want a link to an actual study or poll, not just a conclusion.  I also see people intermingling different numbers (like the number of total gamers in the world and those that said a controller was the barrier a console) and that further confuses matters.   When someone alludes to the conclusion of a poll or study, I want to know the specifics.  What was the sample size?  What was the sample population?  What were the exact questions asked?  How was it conducted?  Was it over the phone?  A questionnaire?  An online poll?  If it was online, what kind of website was it on?  Who would see it, could you verify unique individuals or could it be spammed, etc.   Without knowing how big a study was, how it was conducted, who conducted, etc.  you have no way of knowing if it really means what people are representing that it means.  A conclusion drawn from data is only as good as the data. 

And even then, the conclusions drawn from the data are still often up to debate.  I had a Middle School teacher who showed how the same data could be made to look very different.  It was a story from a newspaper about an "international racing challenge".  It said countries brought their best cars to compete in a friendly race mainly for bragging rights.  It then noted that the U.S. entry came in second to last while the car from the USSR (this was in the 80s) came in second.   The teacher then asked us who came out better?  Most of the students said the USSR car.  Then the teacher revealed it was a story from a USSR paper (Pravda, I think) and it was a two car race, so the US car came in first and the USSR came in second (last).  The story was true but misleading if you didn't know the full circumstances of the data.  Or as Mark Twain said  (although he "appropriated" it from someone else): "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

And after you read all the sources for these statistics you are going to use them for what? To decide whether to buy the console or not? To try to predict better whether the console will succeed or fail because that will have some impact or other? Do you think IE will change their marketing strategy after your analysis and review of their statistics? I’m pretty sure spinning their own statistics would only hurt them. If they knew their analysis was flawed why would they use it to market their product. 

[ColecoJoe]

2 minutes ago, Swami said:

And after you read all the sources for these statistics you are going to use them for what? To decide whether to buy the console or not? To try to predict better whether the console will succeed or fail because that will have some impact or other? Do you think IE will change their marketing strategy after your analysis and review of their statistics? I’m pretty sure spinning their own statistics would only hurt them. 

I don't think anybody is looking at a study or poll to decide on what to buy. I think his point was when you throw statistics and data around it should be backed up with sources. 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

12 minutes ago, atm94404 said:

But I'm glad you brought up "hard data".  When people throw around conclusions to studies "like 94% of gamers are X" or better yet "93.7%" to make it sound extra science-y, I'm always on alert.  I want a link to an actual study or poll, not just a conclusion.

Google it.  Not that difficult.  The numbers are everywhere.

 

3 Billion people play "casual" games (mostly on mobile).  It's not a theory or "extra science-y"... its just data.

 

200 million folks play on console & PC.  Not a theory... just data.  You can even do the math on your own on that one.  Add up all the PS4's, XBOX One, Switchs sold and that equals about 200 million.  There is going to be a HUGE amount of crossover just on the consoles... but of course you can throw in some older consoles for the hardcores that didn't upgrade, and of course the PC market. 

 

The numbers make sense.  I didn't make them up... it's what every video game report shows.

Exact numbers of course are impossible to determine.  No one really knows. 

But no one denies (at least I hope not)... that hardcore console & PC gaming is nowhere near... not even in the same universe... as the amount of people playing casual and/or mobile.

You can argue the exact data if you'd like... but it still doesn't change the fact that the majority of video games are played in a casual or mobile experience.  In regards to dollars and cents...  the mobile industry more than doubles hardcore console numbers (gross) and nearly triples hardcores on PC.  But the more important number is the amount of people playing and why.

Just because you may not like or believe the data... doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

6 minutes ago, ColecoJoe said:

I don't think anybody is looking at a study or poll to decide on what to buy. I think his point was when you throw statistics and data around it should be backed up with sources. 

Google... it's a thing.

 

[digdugnate]

1 minute ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Google... it's a thing.

 

And so are a number of other things!

[ColecoJoe]

Just now, Tommy Tallarico said:

Google... it's a thing.

 

You're trying to sell something. It's your responsibility to provide the information not mine

 

 

 

[+Swami]

13 minutes ago, ColecoJoe said:

I don't think anybody is looking at a study or poll to decide on what to buy. I think his point was when you throw statistics and data around it should be backed up with sources. 

Maybe, if there was some actual point to it. Besides, he put up a graph showing the 93% vs 6% result that had the percentage of gamers using what type of device over the last about 20 years a while ago. 

[bojay1997]

3 minutes ago, Swami said:

Maybe, if there was some actual point to it. 

I agree, which makes it even weirder that Tommy keeps relying on surveys and focus groups and other methods that can be helpful, but aren't a guarantee of success or even a great product.  I mean, tons of large tech companies have relied on similar data and methods and have still released terrible products.  To me, it's just not relevant to my purchase decision and I find it hard to believe that potential investors are swayed much by the data.  I'm sure every investor in every startup gets tons of similar data and yet if you look at the track record of many VC firms in recent years, they still lose money on a good majority of their investments and only continue to survive because of the small percentage that actually deliver great results.   

[1001lives]

6 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

I agree, which makes it even weirder that Tommy keeps relying on surveys and focus groups and other methods that can be helpful, but aren't a guarantee of success or even a great product.  I mean, tons of large tech companies have relied on similar data and methods and have still released terrible products.  To me, it's just not relevant to my purchase decision and I find it hard to believe that potential investors are swayed much by the data.  I'm sure every investor in every startup gets tons of similar data and yet if you look at the track record of many VC firms in recent years, they still lose money on a good majority of their investments and only continue to survive because of the small percentage that actually deliver great results.   

Honestly what was the purpose in posting this? Investors invest money into a ton of products and some succeed, making them tons of money, wheras some fail, losing them money?

 

Thanks for that hot take. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish half the time you post this stuff. If a ton of gamers were surveyed that they liked a game, or a focus group really enjoyed the Xbox controller design, it's PRETTY relevant to me. I'm not sure why you are deciding that because some tech companies make terrible products that invalidates surveys and focus groups.

 

You're negative just to be negative. You don't even know what you're arguing.

[+Swami]

51 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

I agree, which makes it even weirder that Tommy keeps relying on surveys and focus groups and other methods that can be helpful, but aren't a guarantee of success or even a great product.  I mean, tons of large tech companies have relied on similar data and methods and have still released terrible products.  To me, it's just not relevant to my purchase decision and I find it hard to believe that potential investors are swayed much by the data.  I'm sure every investor in every startup gets tons of similar data and yet if you look at the track record of many VC firms in recent years, they still lose money on a good majority of their investments and only continue to survive because of the small percentage that actually deliver great results.   

It’s just part of a discussion. The information doesn’t guarantee success, but a few people are saying his company’s ideas are idiotic and he’s saying he has a lot of evidence they are not. But like you said, even if he posted it all with references, people would still say it doesn’t guarantee anything. Some people have even suggested he’s making it all up! It’s a capitalist venture that has the confidence of many investors who’ve put up millions of dollars and has had large contracts with several retailers. If he doesn’t have the backing the thing just isn’t going to get made, there won’t be any ads or commercials, since they cost a lot of money, and it isn’t going to show up in the stores, but I’m pretty sure it will. 

[bojay1997]

23 minutes ago, 1001lives said:

Honestly what was the purpose in posting this? Investors invest money into a ton of products and some succeed, making them tons of money, wheras some fail, losing them money?

 

Thanks for that hot take. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish half the time you post this stuff. If a ton of gamers were surveyed that they liked a game, or a focus group really enjoyed the Xbox controller design, it's PRETTY relevant to me. I'm not sure why you are deciding that because some tech companies make terrible products that invalidates surveys and focus groups.

 

You're negative just to be negative. You don't even know what you're arguing.

The purpose was to add to the independent discussion.  The point is, we keep getting data which is being presented in a manner which favors one particular conclusion.  My argument was simply that even sophisticated investors and firms get this same kind of data on every product and market they invest in and yet they still lose money on most of their investments.  Stores order inventory that tanks constantly which is why you see clearance sales and entire chains like Five Below and Big Lots.  I hope that the product launches and that it is successful.  I do, however, suspect that by going after an untapped market, the risk goes up considerably and it means that the lifespan of software support for the console could be short, especially with everything essentially being funded by the company.