Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A

4 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Thinking that a joystick has better controls for Centipede and Missile Command rather than a touch screen is pretty hilarious.  Those games are almost unplayable with a joystick.  Even PONG feels amazing with the touch screen... again WAY better than a joystick or analog stick as the touch screen is much more precise. 

I find it interesting that so many hardcore gamers look at the Amico controllers and think it's a fail just because it's not like what they know and use on a daily basis.  Everyone focuses so hard on the "disc" and can't fathom moving with that.... yet they all grew up with only an 8 positional d-pad as opposed to our 64 position "d-pad".  Haters just hating... but also... just not wanting think outside the box... yet the first to complain when everything is always the same.

 

Like I always say... let these folks play the games with the controller and understand how much different, unique and spearheading for our design it is. 

A huge percentage will still hate it... but mostly because they are stubborn and won't want to admit that its a cool and unique idea.  

 

 

That's why I went with a focus on the controllers for my first Amico content.. seems like it's the universal panned "OMG! Can you even play Bejeweled on that?!?!" response, again, and again (and again).

So, submitted to the court, for your review;  A fun exercise in hypocrisy (and a peek at what's in the works) 

Please, Exhibit A: 

The Amico's controllers' most-ardent defenders discuss their personal favorite controllers.  Sorry, for the Canadians here, Tommy is driving to your town to deliver that "u" for proper spelling.  Favourite.  God save the Queen.  And Cmart.  Not in that order.

Don't have time to watch?  No worries.  There were big shout-outs to the Sega Genesis 6 button, the second variant of the Sega Saturn controller, and the NES Max.

That's right.  The Sega Genesis 6-button controller.  And a quick runner up in the Sega Saturn v.2 controller.  Both attached.  Now you might ask yourself, "But Retro Advisory Board, that was an AMAZING controller".  Yes.  Yes they both were.  And both feature d-pad sensors underlaying a disc.  A beautiful, round, sexy circular disc.  Not a rotating disc, she has her limits, just a stationary disc that rocks in any of eight directions.  Albeit with a beveled, slightly elevated as you near the edge (like the Amico's disc, elevating as you reach the edge) cross-pad to help you differentiate thumb placement, which gives you a little tactile guidance between "Up" and "Upper Right" or "Upper Left".  But, it's a "d-pad on a disc" nonetheless, as Ian recently pointed out how much he hates when telling us how god-awful this Amico controller is going to be, based purely on critique of its design (you need only review 1:33 - 3:39, the rest is other nits picked).  What is the difference between the Intellivision disc and Sega's d-pad?  Intellivision has 64 points of programmable inputs.. it can be a simple Up/Down/Left/Right layout by laying an "X" over that disc in the development process of a game.  Four quadrants, shifted 45 degrees.  Do you think you could kinda figure that out in playing a game?  Is your thumb going to constantly drift from Up to Upper Left or the Left designated area?  Maybe.  I doubt it'll be a recurring issue.  Little kids with little thumbs can manage without their thumbs slipping between the main cross pattern.  They're not incompetent dregs hilariously throwing themselves off cliffs in any platformer.  They're pretty friggin' good actually, with those tiny freaky thumbs.  

And then there was Pat's favorite, most stand-out of any controller he's ever played, the one that came to mind, got a shout-out, put on a pedestal for its great design.  What controller is that, you ask?  Could it... could it be... a Nintendo controller that went all the way with the disc as a d-pad concept and put a rotating disc centerpiece in its controller?  Yes, that controller.  The NES Max.  And Pat waxes on about how it allowed you to do things with a disc in games that were just so much harder to do with a d-pad (or a joystick) - the ease of shifting direction, left and right, like you have in Hockey, in Track & Field.. any game where you have to shift direction with precision.

It's almost like that whole "Disc is Incompatible with Gaming!" argument is totally contrived.

Now, I ask you to go back to that second video, one more time.  Sorry.. there's an important second point.  Buttons.  Indented buttons.  It's going to make you scream, beg somebody to put you out of your misery because the Amico has indented buttons.  I know, it makes my thumbs want to slice off their tips just as a preventative measure to avoid the suffering.  But... look at those controllers I just cited.  Look at those beautiful, sleek, indented buttons!

That's right.  The A, B, and C buttons on both the Genesis and the Saturn controller.  The A and B button on the NES Max.  In fact many, many controllers featured indented, concave buttons.  It's kinda standard.  On the Nintendo, on the TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine, the Super Nintendo, the Genesis, the Colecovision had 'em, lots of systems had them.  Nobody is complaining about how that made games unplayable.  But, we make the exception for the Amico, because its disc draws distinction, and anything that stands out as somewhat different is easy to dismiss. 

The disc on the Amico will be just fine.  Better than fine.  Looked like it had great rotation/responsiveness and clicking just watching the controller update video.  And because that rotating disc introduces fluid controller motion we had with trackballs and spinners, extra gameplay versatility.  It incorporates the ease of shifting direction and precision a disc brings.  All of the motion of a toggle stick but more precision, because the looping direction is always left or right, you never slip.  And it all sits atop a completely programmable 64 sector d-pad that can operate in tandem with the rotating dial or independently of it.  Your thumbs found their way about disc-based designs in the past.  They will do just fine with this one.  We've all got to feel it, but it looks like the shape and feel and contours and small cues in feedback as it moves.. is all there, all things a team worked on till they knew they had something great. 

Pat and Ian just went from "original Intellivision controller disc was bad" to "this is a disc, it's also going to be bad" - a natural progression, but without ever thinking about how discs worked on other controllers, how it could be non-problematic if designed well. 

If other younger male core-audience gamers are dismissive of a controller, triggering PTSD flashbacks of foreplay gone awry and the pressure to master small circular motions, well, only so much world you can change in a day.  But that doesn't mean the controller is bad.  Maybe you just gotta up your game.  😏

Thank you.  Motion to dismiss and throw this out. 

I've gotta say, the original Amico controller design where the two side buttons were closer together looked more appealing to me but I can't speak to how it was in actual use.  The one concern I have (it won't stop me from pre-ordering) is that the side button on the bottom may get accidentally pressed when I'm holding in in vertical mode.

14 minutes ago, Orange Guard said:

I've gotta say, the original Amico controller design where the two side buttons were closer together looked more appealing to me but I can't speak to how it was in actual use.  The one concern I have (it won't stop me from pre-ordering) is that the side button on the bottom may get accidentally pressed when I'm holding in in vertical mode.

I do believe that Tommy mentioned that the buttons are somewhat recessed and can be locked out depending on the controller orientation (via the gyroscope) so palm presses weren't an issue.

26 minutes ago, Orange Guard said:

I've gotta say, the original Amico controller design where the two side buttons were closer together looked more appealing to me but I can't speak to how it was in actual use.  The one concern I have (it won't stop me from pre-ordering) is that the side button on the bottom may get accidentally pressed when I'm holding in in vertical mode.

Solution: when the controller is held vertically in a game (game design prefers or user prefers), the dev can deactivate those lower buttons based on how s/he thinks you'll hold it.  Or, the dev can also program the controller to override inputs from the buttons nearest the disc when the gyroscope detects the positioning of the controller, if it's an issue during playtesting.

I like the shift to buttons on either end as it benefits game development with horizontal holds in consideration.  The two buttons on either side assumed a hold like your phone, and index/middle finger used in tandem for input.  With one button on either side, it allows index finger and thumb - playing the controller more like an Atari 7800 or Colecovision, rather than the original Intellivision.  But I think most people will have better command of index/thumb combo than index/middle finger (I imagine comfortable if you play an instrument as the finger placement emulates it, but less natural if don't).

26 minutes ago, RetroAdvisoryBoard said:

That's why I went with a focus on the controllers for my first Amico content.. seems like it's the universal panned "OMG! Can you even play Bejeweled on that?!?!" response, again, and again (and again).

 

Now you might ask yourself, "But Retro Advisory Board, that was an AMAZING controller".  Yes.  Yes they both were.  And both feature d-pad sensors underlaying a disc.  A beautiful, round, sexy circular disc.  Not a rotating disc, she has her limits, just a stationary disc that rocks in any of eight directions.  Albeit with a beveled, slightly elevated as you near the edge (like the Amico's disc, elevating as you reach the edge)

I will just add to your argument by taking a counter example - the Steam controller - loathed by many (loved by a few). The truth is it's touch sensitive pads are actually great for certain games - and pretty poor for others. I am pretty convinced that any reasonable set of controls that are well built and responsive can be great IF the games are designed or adapted to match the input device. If the Amico was just going to have a dumping ground store then yeah the controllers would be a HUGE issue. You see this a lot with VR games - some games really 'get' VR controls and are great - some almost clone games feel clunky & terrible just because of a bad control scheme. There is even an VR addon package called "Natural Locomotion" to patch some of these terrible design decisions. However with totally tailored, custom games & a 'funness' quality control system on top of that - I think Amico games will naturally work great on Amico controllers.

1 minute ago, GrudgeQ said:

I am pretty convinced that any reasonable set of controls that are well built and responsive can be great IF the games are designed or adapted to match the input device. If the Amico was just going to have a dumping ground store then yeah the controllers would be a HUGE issue.

Really good point.  Designing the games to the hardware/inputs available makes for enjoyable play experiences.  Cramming circular ports into a square system just won't work.  Nobody thinks about that when Tommy says "the games we're putting on our system CAN'T be played on other systems".. even I forget, all the game design and control decisions have a particular controller and its features in mind.

Didn't he also say somewhere they were focusing on it being used horizontally more than vertically and that was part of the button switch?

2 minutes ago, RetroAdvisoryBoard said:

Really good point.  Designing the games to the hardware/inputs available makes for enjoyable play experiences.  Cramming circular ports into a square system just won't work.  Nobody thinks about that when Tommy says "the games we're putting on our system CAN'T be played on other systems".. even I forget, all the game design and control decisions have a particular controller and its features in mind.

Your right - Amico games will work great on Amico controllers also means that a straight port to a standard controller might well suck (or even be completely undo-able as-is - like hidden information games that use the controller screen). Another example is the PlayDate - a DPad and two buttons *and a crank*. You know 99% of the games will use the crank for a key mechanic - where on an XBox controller are you going to imitate that crank in a non crappy way? Show me an authentic implementation of a trackball or spinner arcade game on a standard console. PC gets somewhat close to a trackball with a mouse - the spinner though pretty much as no direct replacement with a standard gaming input. The Amico controller however is going to have a decent solution for both - the touchscreen for a trackball and the disc for a spinner. Obviously not the same in quality or feel but I wager those games will be better/closer to the original on the Amico controller than the XBox controller.

1 hour ago, Orange Guard said:

I've gotta say, the original Amico controller design where the two side buttons were closer together looked more appealing to me but I can't speak to how it was in actual use.  The one concern I have (it won't stop me from pre-ordering) is that the side button on the bottom may get accidentally pressed when I'm holding in in vertical mode.

When they moved the buttons what they did was change it from a vertical controller to a horizontal controller.  With the original buttons they could be used like a trigger on a gun with the controller held vertically.  With the new location they would be used like shoulder buttons on a modern controller.  The issue now is that the buttons become secondary to the touchpad on the face of the controller and the preference people have for physical buttons.

Edit:

Most important, and something that Ian from the video identified, is that the amico controller remains reversible for left or right handers; just like the old intellivision controller.  This is a key feature for casual gamers.

1 hour ago, GrudgeQ said:

I do believe that Tommy mentioned that the buttons are somewhat recessed and can be locked out depending on the controller orientation (via the gyroscope) so palm presses weren't an issue.

I didn't even think of that possibility.  Great to hear they've accounted for that.  I do think that horizontal usage of the controller seems like it would work pretty well and may be the main mode that developers target.  Especially since you could easily flip it around depending on right or left handed usage.

6 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Yes. 

Just curious. Are there going to be any Amico games where one person would use two controllers or a controller and a smart phone at the same time? Not for anything complex, but just games where it actually makes it more natural.  I suppose you’d be limited to four players rather than eight as a max for such games, but 4 is still a lot. 

6 hours ago, LePionnier said:

Tommy wants one of the 5 games to be something like Wii Sports ( it was more a demo !  ) , but more completed !
So I am taking a guess here. We could have 10 games in this one. Some lawn games, card games, some sports, etc.

We can speculate a lot here. Can a simple game like pong can be in this bundle ? One thing is sure. It will be very fun and entertaining.

Also we will discover all the ways we can play with the controller.

When I was referring to Wii Sports I meant the "motion controls", not the 4 mini game tech demo.

Only 5 total (but complete!) games.

5 hours ago, GrudgeQ said:

Speaking of that, 20ish hours in on a Tweet of just 3 seconds of a cartoon character just running and you got over 33,000 views, 600 shares and pushing 3000 likes. I know some social media mavens who would be pretty jealous of those types of results.

I know right!!

Imagine when we start spending actually ad dollars!  

 

4 hours ago, Serguei2 said:

Ferrari is not enough. I ask for a private jet.

You'll need to wait a little... when Amico has sold over 10 million units!  

4 hours ago, GrudgeQ said:

I would imagine the way Tommy probably drives his Ferrari a jet would be slower

Good point!

PROOF! 

😂

3 hours ago, LePionnier said:

Serguei2, you should tell the true reason why you want a private jet instead of a Ferrari.

In Quebec, roads are terrible ! So you don't want Tommy to break his car !

 

I'm just looking forward to the vegan poutine!!

 

Tommy - Checking out twitter. Looks like Earthworm Jim 3 really has people's attention like you mentioned previously. Funny how Earthworm Jim alone seems like free marketing to that "crowd."

I wonder if Ecco or Toejam or other classics may also turn heads like this? 

Wasn't Earthworm Jim in Clayfighter? What's Interplay doing with it I wonder... Maybe Intellivision can take a look... 

2 hours ago, RetroAdvisoryBoard said:

That's why I went with a focus on the controllers for my first Amico content.. seems like it's the universal panned "OMG! Can you even play Bejeweled on that?!?!" response, again, and again (and again).

 

So, submitted to the court, for your review;  A fun exercise in hypocrisy (and a peek at what's in the works) 

 

Please, Exhibit A: 

 

The Amico's controllers' most-ardent defenders discuss their personal favorite controllers.  Sorry, for the Canadians here, Tommy is driving to your town to deliver that "u" for proper spelling.  Favourite.  God save the Queen.  And Cmart.  Not in that order.

 

Don't have time to watch?  No worries.  There were big shout-outs to the Sega Genesis 6 button, the second variant of the Sega Saturn controller, and the NES Max.

 

 

That's right.  The Sega Genesis 6-button controller.  And a quick runner up in the Sega Saturn v.2 controller.  Both attached.  Now you might ask yourself, "But Retro Advisory Board, that was an AMAZING controller".  Yes.  Yes they both were.  And both feature d-pad sensors underlaying a disc.  A beautiful, round, sexy circular disc.  Not a rotating disc, she has her limits, just a stationary disc that rocks in any of eight directions.  Albeit with a beveled, slightly elevated as you near the edge (like the Amico's disc, elevating as you reach the edge) cross-pad to help you differentiate thumb placement, which gives you a little tactile guidance between "Up" and "Upper Right" or "Upper Left".  But, it's a "d-pad on a disc" nonetheless, as Ian recently pointed out how much he hates when telling us how god-awful this Amico controller is going to be, based purely on critique of its design (you need only review 1:33 - 3:39, the rest is other nits picked).  What is the difference between the Intellivision disc and Sega's d-pad?  Intellivision has 64 points of programmable inputs.. it can be a simple Up/Down/Left/Right layout by laying an "X" over that disc in the development process of a game.  Four quadrants, shifted 45 degrees.  Do you think you could kinda figure that out in playing a game?  Is your thumb going to constantly drift from Up to Upper Left or the Left designated area?  Maybe.  I doubt it'll be a recurring issue.  Little kids with little thumbs can manage without their thumbs slipping between the main cross pattern.  They're not incompetent dregs hilariously throwing themselves off cliffs in any platformer.  They're pretty friggin' good actually, with those tiny freaky thumbs.  

 

And then there was Pat's favorite, most stand-out of any controller he's ever played, the one that came to mind, got a shout-out, put on a pedestal for its great design.  What controller is that, you ask?  Could it... could it be... a Nintendo controller that went all the way with the disc as a d-pad concept and put a rotating disc centerpiece in its controller?  Yes, that controller.  The NES Max.  And Pat waxes on about how it allowed you to do things with a disc in games that were just so much harder to do with a d-pad (or a joystick) - the ease of shifting direction, left and right, like you have in Hockey, in Track & Field.. any game where you have to shift direction with precision.

 

It's almost like that whole "Disc is Incompatible with Gaming!" argument is totally contrived.

 

Now, I ask you to go back to that second video, one more time.  Sorry.. there's an important second point.  Buttons.  Indented buttons.  It's going to make you scream, beg somebody to put you out of your misery because the Amico has indented buttons.  I know, it makes my thumbs want to slice off their tips just as a preventative measure to avoid the suffering.  But... look at those controllers I just cited.  Look at those beautiful, sleek, indented buttons!

 

That's right.  The A, B, and C buttons on both the Genesis and the Saturn controller.  The A and B button on the NES Max.  In fact many, many controllers featured indented, concave buttons.  It's kinda standard.  On the Nintendo, on the TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine, the Super Nintendo, the Genesis, the Colecovision had 'em, lots of systems had them.  Nobody is complaining about how that made games unplayable.  But, we make the exception for the Amico, because its disc draws distinction, and anything that stands out as somewhat different is easy to dismiss. 

 

 

The disc on the Amico will be just fine.  Better than fine.  Looked like it had great rotation/responsiveness and clicking just watching the controller update video.  And because that rotating disc introduces fluid controller motion we had with trackballs and spinners, extra gameplay versatility.  It incorporates the ease of shifting direction and precision a disc brings.  All of the motion of a toggle stick but more precision, because the looping direction is always left or right, you never slip.  And it all sits atop a completely programmable 64 sector d-pad that can operate in tandem with the rotating dial or independently of it.  Your thumbs found their way about disc-based designs in the past.  They will do just fine with this one.  We've all got to feel it, but it looks like the shape and feel and contours and small cues in feedback as it moves.. is all there, all things a team worked on till they knew they had something great. 

 

 

Pat and Ian just went from "original Intellivision controller disc was bad" to "this is a disc, it's also going to be bad" - a natural progression, but without ever thinking about how discs worked on other controllers, how it could be non-problematic if designed well. 

 

If other younger male core-audience gamers are dismissive of a controller, triggering PTSD flashbacks of foreplay gone awry and the pressure to master small circular motions, well, only so much world you can change in a day.  But that doesn't mean the controller is bad.  Maybe you just gotta up your game.  😏

 

 

Thank you.  Motion to dismiss and throw this out. 

 

 

Wow!  Pretty amazing info.  Will definitely use this with folks if it ever comes us. 

Someone should make a video about this though.  This post will be lost within a few pages.  Would be a popular video for sure I believe.  Needs to be on YouTube!  And not to go against those guys... but as a perfect example of folks not like the Amico controller, yet seeing how it's not as far removed from peoples favorite controllers as they think. 

2 hours ago, Orange Guard said:

I've gotta say, the original Amico controller design where the two side buttons were closer together looked more appealing to me but I can't speak to how it was in actual use.  The one concern I have (it won't stop me from pre-ordering) is that the side button on the bottom may get accidentally pressed when I'm holding in in vertical mode.

We did a lot of testing and redesigning to ensure that wouldn't happen.  They are recessed.

2 hours ago, RetroAdvisoryBoard said:

 

Solution: when the controller is held vertically in a game (game design prefers or user prefers), the dev can deactivate those lower buttons based on how s/he thinks you'll hold it.  Or, the dev can also program the controller to override inputs from the buttons nearest the disc when the gyroscope detects the positioning of the controller, if it's an issue during playtesting.

 

I like the shift to buttons on either end as it benefits game development with horizontal holds in consideration.  The two buttons on either side assumed a hold like your phone, and index/middle finger used in tandem for input.  With one button on either side, it allows index finger and thumb - playing the controller more like an Atari 7800 or Colecovision, rather than the original Intellivision.  But I think most people will have better command of index/thumb combo than index/middle finger (I imagine comfortable if you play an instrument as the finger placement emulates it, but less natural if don't).

Yes.  Deactivating the bottom buttons in vertical is in the Amico Guide that we send all of our developers.

2 hours ago, GrudgeQ said:

I will just add to your argument by taking a counter example - the Steam controller - loathed by many (loved by a few). The truth is it's touch sensitive pads are actually great for certain games - and pretty poor for others. I am pretty convinced that any reasonable set of controls that are well built and responsive can be great IF the games are designed or adapted to match the input device. If the Amico was just going to have a dumping ground store then yeah the controllers would be a HUGE issue. You see this a lot with VR games - some games really 'get' VR controls and are great - some almost clone games feel clunky & terrible just because of a bad control scheme. There is even an VR addon package called "Natural Locomotion" to patch some of these terrible design decisions. However with totally tailored, custom games & a 'funness' quality control system on top of that - I think Amico games will naturally work great on Amico controllers.

Yeah... just having a touch for a d-pad or disc doesn't work.  It cracks me up when folks say the controllers are nothing more than a Zune or iPod.  Completely different and we are way more tactile.

2 hours ago, RetroAdvisoryBoard said:

Really good point.  Designing the games to the hardware/inputs available makes for enjoyable play experiences.  Cramming circular ports into a square system just won't work.  Nobody thinks about that when Tommy says "the games we're putting on our system CAN'T be played on other systems".. even I forget, all the game design and control decisions have a particular controller and its features in mind.

Yes!  The entire system and all the game designed is literally designed around the controllers for the most part... and using them in very unique ways.

1 hour ago, Swami said:

Just curious. Are there going to be any Amico games where one person would use two controllers or a controller and a smart phone at the same time? Not for anything complex, but just games where it actually makes it more natural.  I suppose you’d be limited to four players rather than eight as a max for such games, but 4 is still a lot. 

Yes!  

I can think of 2 we have in development right now.  So many surprises to come.

It seems we are talking about controller today ! So I have a few questions...

1) Let's say we are playing hockey, 4 on 4.    8 peoples are playing, we are 4 on each teams.

    Is it possible with a controller to assign buttons to a colored player ? ( I hope I can explain what I mean ... 🙄 )

    I am blue, and on my team I have red player, green player and yellow player.

    If I push the red button, then I will (try) to make a pass to the red player (my son, controller # 2), or if I am pushing the yellow button, I will make a pass to my girlfriend (yellow controller # 4).

   So this way, no need to control where you want the pass to go. Can be a different way to play if you have 2 or 3 hockey games, soccer of football, etc.

   It's just one of some exemple that I have.

2) Is it possible to hide a controller in the house, and players are trying to find it by themself with their own controller ?. Each one can have different clues on his/her controller. Can be like a hot and cold thing ?

3) This one looks like the first one, but need a respond from the other controller.

I am pushing my red button, red player controller's receives a vibration or a message letting him know he has been choosen.

Can be useful when other players should not know who has been chosen by me.

Personally ' I can't wait to have the controller in hand. I love the new way the "disc" was made. (Nothing to compare to Intellivision in the 80's).

I am already sold to it. I know that thousands of hours of testing have been done, and I am very confident of the result.

Thank you.

TECH TAKES ITS FOOT OFF THE KID GAS PEDAL: CONSUMER ELECTRONICS SHOW 2020 RECAP
 

https://www.crresearch.com/youthbeat/blog/technology-for-kids-consumer-electronics-show-2020-recap