Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A

18 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Will be way before that!!  Could be within the next 2 weeks!

 

How will people be notified?  I'll have limited access from Jan 18 - Feb 4.

1 hour ago, GrudgeQ said:

 

The distinction is that this is a *limited* pre-order of a *once only* special edition for fans, media people who want to get their machines a few days early and people who highly value the bonus features over just the console. I am sure you will be able to pre order the Amico for $10 at Game Stop (or something similar), but that will much closer to the actual ship date. As with *any* pre-order you are taking a risk {insert joke about $10 and GameStop here} and if people have any qualms then I suggest they simply wait for retail. This isn't the Intellivision business model, this is a bonus for early supports.

This was literally the sales pitch on the Atari vaporbox.  It will also allegedly be available at retail or at least from the .com sites of Gamestop and others.  You can still do a founders edition like Google did for Stadia or Microsoft did for Xbox One by opening preorders early but not taking money until it ships.  As of a couple of days ago, Tommy wasn't even sure of the retail pricing, so how can it be the appropriate time to start taking preorders for early adopters?  I mean, if this is the way this thing is going, there literally is no difference between Amico and the Atari vaporbox with the exception of a more enthusiastic salesperson and a somewhat unimpressive Moon Patrol demo.  

1 hour ago, JBerel said:

I was going to ask the same question, but I didn't want to get pounced on, banned or have another post removed without justification. The minute this goes into charging people up front for something that's not available to ship, then there is a much higher level of credibility and guarantee of service required. So far, it's been lots and lots, and lots of talk and excitement. Granted Amico "seems" to have their act together better than some recent utter scams in the retro/alternative gaming world, but there's still a concerning amount of conjecture and hype at play here. I suppose a money back guarantee with any pre-order would suffice, or $10 down and payment upon shipping like some Gamestop pre-orders maybe. But, there's still a long way to go before this thing is locked down into a tangible shipping product with guaranteed ship dates, and by their own admission, they haven't spent any of their excessive marketing money they keep teasing about which might suggest greater credibility. I'm not saying it's the case here, but there's always a chance these things are propped up on window dressing, best intentions or exaggerated egotism. Talk is cheap and voluminous. Just trying to remain objective rather than cynical. 

You bring up some really great points.  While I understand having a Founder's Edition and other console colors at launch, the amount of conjecture and hype seems to growing a bit much.  Also, so does the price of the the console itself.  If I recall correctly, it was supposed to be in $150 to $200 range.  However, if it is going to go above that amount (say $225), that may be a little much in my opinion.  Those are just my thoughts and certainly an above price above $200 is nowhere near a travesty or anything, it just seems to be going beyond what has been said all long.  Still, I am very interested in seeing more from Intellivision and the Amico.  Just I have a little bit more skepticism now that what I did, which is still pretty low.

1 hour ago, JBerel said:

I'm not saying it's the case here, but there's always a chance these things are propped up on window dressing, best intentions or exaggerated egotism. Talk is cheap and voluminous. Just trying to remain objective rather than cynical. 

Your right talk is cheap and doing stuff is hard. Critics have it the easiest because all they need to do is talk - that doesn't mean they are wrong, just that it is much easier than actually doing something. Because of that I just want to relate the details of a little story:

I went the Video Games Live concert near me not because I just wanted to hear the music (it was a great show but not the point of me attending) - instead I wanted to meet Tommy. I am sure people won't be impress that I found him genuine (I could be wrong), that he clearly loves games & gaming - I think his first sentence past 'hello' was had I seen the OG Intellivision in the lobby, but that the way he let me have a sneak peak of the Skiing game for Intellivision. He literally pulled out his phone, opened a message app, selected Hans Ippisch and played the latest video explaining this was something Hans had just sent him. After that he scrolled back a long ways and played an earlier video of skiing explaining that this was before the shadows were improved - basically he was geeking out over how the game was progressing. All of this happened in the 'meet & greet' line Tommy holds after the show (I am sure while the people behind me wondered what the hell Tommy was showing some random concert goer on his phone).

So what does that have to do with anything? Well either Tommy is a freaking genius conman and keeps fake messages loaded into his phone at all times to show random passersby - or - they are actively working on this stuff in real-time & often times sharing it with folks here and in person. That doesn't mean he or the Amico will succeed but I came away from that convinced that Tommy is dead serious about this project, things are actively progressing and it is way more than 'window dressing'.

I totally get if price increase or paying in advance is not to everyone’s cup of tea.  That is very fair.  But comparing it to the Ataribox?  People have actually PLAYED dev versions of the Amico, held the real controllers, played quite a few real games.  
 

can Ataribox say the same?!?  Jeesus...

7 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

This was literally the sales pitch on the Atari vaporbox.  It will also allegedly be available at retail or at least from the .com sites of Gamestop and others.  You can still do a founders edition like Google did for Stadia or Microsoft did for Xbox One by opening preorders early but not taking money until it ships.  As of a couple of days ago, Tommy wasn't even sure of the retail pricing, so how can it be the appropriate time to start taking preorders for early adopters?  I mean, if this is the way this thing is going, there literally is no difference between Amico and the Atari vaporbox with the exception of a more enthusiastic salesperson and a somewhat unimpressive Moon Patrol demo.  

Which speaks to my point of putting the cart before the horse. Why are the Amico folks worried about doing a special edition (and taking preorders for it!) before all of the details are nailed down for the actual unit? Nail the basic thing down completely and then worry about the rest, later. 

Incoming novel.  Brace yourselves, grab your comfy socks and a tall drink.

From the very first mention of price, this system has always been presented as the affordable option, $149.99-$179.99 USD.  In *every* interview ever given, Tommy has been deliberate in saying that was the goal, there may be certain things they cannot account for.  Tariffs often given, but also, reconfiguring part of the design, the cost fluctuations in components that may have risen a little more than they were accounting for back in 2018.  The components that didn’t take a price drop as anticipated.  Components purchased by another large buyer, decreasing availability and increasing price.  Maybe a 15% deviation in manufacturing estimates looks closer to a 20% deviation.  
 

That the system is still being targeted around/under $200, that’s 10 percent of it’s initial window, is commendable.  Truly.  I think we’re projecting however a barrier at $199.99 USD that just may not exist.  Not to the extent we think anyway.

Sure, psychologically we’re looking at $199.99 as this cliff.  Below that, it’s immense value, everybody and their grandmother will buy one because it’s such an attractive price.  Above $200?  We’re acting like it’s a death knelt that will push every consumer away.  Too expensive. Not worth it.  Just get a Switch Lite at $199.

Let’s not forget a few things.

1) The 2DS retailed at $129.99 and did fantastic.  $99.99 doesn’t appear to have been a psychological barrier for a single player handheld device aimed at younger children.  The 3DS XL also did well at $159.99 selling alongside it.  $149.99 wasn’t any sort of barrier either.  Perhaps consumer behavior between $179.99 and $209.99 isn’t going to be the system killer talking heads project it to be.

2) The Switch Lite is a single player experience.  Sure, at $199.99 Nintendo expected to push several million this holiday season and next.  But to the shopper considering a gaming system, there are five real options they’re looking at.  Nintendo’s Switch Lite at $199.99 looks great.  Wait, do the controllers come off?  Oh, it’s one player.  That’s fine, maybe my husband and daughter will share time with the device.  The games look child-friendly, bright, colorful, safe.  I know Mario and this Yoshi and little platoon kids look harmless.  Maybe I get the more premium Switch with its detachable controllers.  Then two of us can play together.  But that’s $299.  Then there’s this display of the Amico.  It’s $209.99.  Maybe $219.99.  Either way I’m spending about $200.  But this thing is for the whole family.  Nintendo is family friendly too.  Oh.  There’s games like Skiing and card games.. simple enough.  Up to eight people play simultaneously?  No additional purchases necessary?  Games are included?  I can use my phone?  Where’s the buttons? That’s it?  Hmm.. easy enough, my in-laws could play too?  Hmm.

Mom isn’t sold, picks the Nintendo, because.. Nintendo.  Kid is getting a machine to turn on at $199.99.  Did Mario sell you?  Better get that $59.99 Mario Odyssey.  This is her big BIG gift this year, probably want one other game to mix things up so she’s not bored after two weeks.  Add on another $49.99 or $44.99 familiar quality-looking game.  That Christmas gift is looking a lot like a $310 purchase.  And we don’t even have to question whether this is a scenario.  We see the sales numbers, we *know* people are getting a Switch and a couple games.  We know their price entry point.  We know they’re willing to fork over $300, $400 on a Switch and 2-4 games for the holiday.

Yet we’re fretting over $10, $20?
 

If three moms out of a hundred who otherwise pick up a Switch stop at that aisle and reconsider... “I know Trixie really wanted Mario and Animal Crossing, and will disown me and call into question my parenting skills and cripple our relationship... but this pitch about playing together with the whole family, and I can play these games, they look pretty straightforward and not too complex, too involved, too fantasy world.. and we get five games???  AND all the rest of the games are $3-$10?  Well, let’s give this Amico a try.”... If just three out of a hundred make that calculation?  That’s 150,000-250,000 sales each holiday.  
 

Intellivision would be looking at a PatMath success rate of 30 to 50 times a certain “I don’t think this sells 5,000 units” forecast.  Just in November-December 2020 sales.  Just by appealing/swaying 3% of the existing, video game console seasonal purchase market who we presume are interested in family friendly system (Nintendo).

That doesn’t take into consideration the appeal to non-gaming households. You know, the market Intellivision is cultivating, rather than the periphery of the existing market it may peel off.  
 

That doesn’t take into consideration the value proposition of this system to nursing homes, to bars looking for a party game solution to keep patrons around for one more drink.  (Tommy, look into the Nightclub and Bar Convention & Tradeshow this Mar 30 in Vegas.. there’s a natural market that needn’t be ruled out by “family friendly” with an inherent interest in such a product, in a party machine that does trivia, sports games, recreational and patrons don’t run off with controllers, easy to connect?  Worth the pitch).

That doesn’t include hundreds, a thousand firehouses and EMT stations with trained professional teams on-call with some amount of downtime and a need to quickly pick up and drop an activity like Amico offers.  
 

That doesn’t include any handful of airports who might find their appeal to customers in offering a couple kiosks per terminal wing where customers can use their phones to play together and be entertained a worthwhile endeavor, something to encourage travel the next time at their airport, not the bigger international airport alternative.  Much cheaper than installing several dozen tablets and counters for travelers, custom software and repair.  Or dying malls looking at rec center repurposed spaces and community spaces to get people to come back.

So I said their were six real options at the store for customers regarding video games.  Switch Lite, Switch Regular (two cream, two sugar), and Amico.  The other options?  PlayStation 5 and Xbox One X are easily $400-$500.  Those games that appeal to family are few and far between.  You’ve all seen the games aisle.  Sony and Microsoft’s whole lineup is 80-95% loud, aggressive, mature.  It is male.  It is older teen/young adult male.  I don’t think the Amico is a toss-up to anyone getting one of those two systems.  Though maybe 1 in every 300 purchasers would consider an Amico, they’re picking up an Xbox because they presume it’s going to be a good system for things it doesn’t do.  Not a large number to bring in, but, it’s bigger than none.  
 

Stores will still have PS4 and Xbox One next holiday, but they won’t be prominently displayed.  They aren’t being pushed by either company - they’re the discount option for late adopters.  And their displays will be overwhelmed by the new multi hundred-million dollar systems Microsoft and Sony need to give the strongest possible launch.  So while the price point may be similar, the display isn’t, the access to those systems and games libraries over 2021 and 2022 will be increasingly vanishing.  Amico will likely hold the space to itself by early 2022 after its first year and second holiday.  
 

3) $224.99 may be a possibility, but that doesn’t mean Intellivision is stuck at what they’re offering at $224.99. Tommy’s always proposed five games included.  Could increase that to seven or eight if the base unit cost is deemed too prohibitive.  At $200,000-$300,000 development cost for these in-house produced games, it’s a hal-million eaten up front to make up on the value proposition, but apparently the pool of devs interested in producing games for the system is already filling up for 2021, sooo, maybe clear up a couple slots.  Offer 7 or 8 games.  
 

and finally 4) $200+ may just be the perceived cost of one of these systems.  Consumers have experience with $50-$100 systems.  They’re plug & plays.  They’re relatively cheap.  They sell somewhat and make their way to Clearance.  So if we see $99.99 (the price several comments in YouTubia say this is a sure-fire pick-up), well, the non-gaming public experience with that price point is:  Cheap.  Cheap product, and it’s still $100.  $130-$200?  Their only recent experience at that price point has been the Nintendo handhelds-primarily-child-focused market.  $180-$225 isn’t really an inhabited space.  Then the jump to $300 for the Switch and soon-departing Xbox One/PS4 (formerly in the $400 range, with pro models nearing $500 and the PS3 once $600.  
 

Nothing else really inhabited that $180-$225 range *since the early arrival of the Wii*. And it had no problem at that price point, sans many Mario or big draw Nintendo properties initially.  It just appealed to relatable gameplay and simplicity.  
 

So let’s not panic if Intellivision are looking to breach $200.  There is no evidence it’s the end of the world.  Quite the contrary.. and I trust their retail and product advisors have much better data to play with than my dissertation.  Plus they probably have footnotes.  I’ll work on that for the next post.

3 minutes ago, GrudgeQ said:

Your right talk is cheap and doing stuff is hard. Critics have it the easiest because all they need to do is talk - that doesn't mean they are wrong, just that it is much easier than actually doing something. Because of that I just want to relate the details of a little story:

 

I went the Video Games Live concert near me not because I just wanted to hear the music (it was a great show but not the point of me attending) - instead I wanted to meet Tommy. I am sure people won't be impress that I found him genuine (I could be wrong), that he clearly loves games & gaming - I think his first sentence past 'hello' was had I seen the OG Intellivision in the lobby, but that the way he let me have a sneak peak of the Skiing game for Intellivision. He literally pulled out his phone, opened a message app, selected Hans Ippisch and played the latest video explaining this was something Hans had just sent him. After that he scrolled back a long ways and played an earlier video of skiing explaining that this was before the shadows were improved - basically he was geeking out over how the game was progressing. All of this happened in the 'meet & greet' line Tommy holds after the show (I am sure while the people behind me wondered what the hell Tommy was showing some random concert goer on his phone).

 

So what does that have to do with anything? Well either Tommy is a freaking genius conman and keeps fake messages loaded into his phone at all times to show random passersby - or - they are actively working on this stuff in real-time & often times sharing it with folks here and in person. That doesn't mean he or the Amico will succeed but I came away from that convinced that Tommy is dead serious about this project, things are actively progressing and it is way more than 'window dressing'.

Tommy has a rep and still has a presence in the industry.  In no way would he risk it all with a scam.  That doesn’t mean he’s infallible, he could be mistaken, he can misjudge what people would pay, the controller, etc but he’s def genuine and the market he seeks?  It exists and is waiting for someone to come in nd take it.  If not Tommy an Intellivision, someone else will

2 minutes ago, Loafer said:

I totally get if price increase or paying in advance is not to everyone’s cup of tea.  That is very fair.  But comparing it to the Ataribox?  People have actually PLAYED dev versions of the Amico, held the real controllers, played quite a few real games.  
 

can Ataribox say the same?!?  Jeesus...

The people who are being asked for money have done none of those things.  One of the best things Amico had going for it was that it was avoiding the parallels to the Chameleon or the Ataribox.  This just throws it right into that pile and while I personally believe Tommy has a lot of credibility, there really is no reason to be doing something like this when the hardware, pricing and options aren't even finalized.  Maybe a few months before launch when everything is in place, but not ten months out.

5 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

The people who are being asked for money have done none of those things.  One of the best things Amico had going for it was that it was avoiding the parallels to the Chameleon or the Ataribox.  This just throws it right into that pile and while I personally believe Tommy has a lot of credibility, there really is no reason to be doing something like this when the hardware, pricing and options aren't even finalized.  Maybe a few months before launch when everything is in place, but not ten months out.

Really?? Really???🤣

Newsflash:  there is a limit of 2600 (or whatever) for the founders edition.  If it’s not for you, then wait. How this equates to the Ataribox is beyond me.  
 

it’s cool to not agree with this but some people are maybe looking for negatives to maybe justify their pre-conceived notions.  i get it, I’ve been burned on kickstarters before (one 3D printer comes to mind) but to me, this is totally different.  It’s ok tnat we all see things differently, part of the wonders of humanity

2 minutes ago, dj_convoy said:

Which speaks to my point of putting the cart before the horse. Why are the Amico folks worried about doing a special edition (and taking preorders for it!) before all of the details are nailed down for the actual unit? Nail the basic thing down completely and then worry about the rest, later. 

I don’t think they are worried about it.  The total income would be $780,000 on 2600 units.  Minus production costs, minus some expenses in packaging, it may only be an influx of $780,000 now for $500,000 or $600,000 in e lenses later.  They’ve discussed doing special things for Intellivision fans as far as sneak peaks and offers, so, not so out an idea.

But investors, they have funded start-ups, who specialize in venture capital funding, they are probably asking, “Why AREN’T you doing this?”  Plus those investors seeding funds want to take details back to their broader fund managers and show them, “look, they had an initial offer of 2600 units, it sold out in 48 hours.”  “Why only 2600?”  “A stick in the eye at their old rivalry with Atari”.  ::points out the superficial troubles VCS is going through:: “Intellivision is going to make a play for that retro market as well, people getting an Atari are getting a PC/tv box crossover to program.  Zero casual appeal.  Intellivision is trying to absorb that market though.  Retro and casual, families and budget-minded”

I can see where a pre-order is a big fulfillment to 1) fans, 2) investors, and 3) retail order purchasers looking for SOME number to gauge interest in a product field they aren’t super knowledgeable about.  And it’s different from crowd-funding, which has tiers to help build toward if goals are met, usually the product isn’t in production, may not even have a proof of concept.  This is more icing on the cake.  But parties need to see the frosting if they’re going to fund the bakery’s expansion plans.

13 minutes ago, Swami said:

Really?? Really???🤣

7 minutes ago, Loafer said:

Newsflash:  there is a limit of 2600 (or whatever) for the founders edition.  If it’s not for you, then wait. How this equates to the Ataribox is beyond me.  
 

it’s cool to not agree with this but some people are maybe looking for negatives to maybe justify their pre-conceived notions.  i get it, I’ve been burned on kickstarters before (one 3D printer comes to mind) but to me, this is totally different.  It’s ok tnat we all see things differently, part of the wonders of humanity

Again, that was literally the sales pitch of Atari Box.  Custom smaller run versions available only to people that would be willing to pay up front with a regular retail version to follow.  I mean, I have been admittedly skeptical of this project just like I was of Chameleon and Ataribox.  Having said that, Tommy had done a good job of convincing me that the Amico could really be something or at least is worth a chance once things are finalized.  From my perspective, once you go down the road of collecting money almost a year in advance of launch, all bets are off and you are essentially crowdfunding vaporware and the level of scrutiny of every decision goes way, way up.  I'm really not sure why you are so eager to hand over your hard earned money, especially given that Tommy has made it clear that they have plenty of investors and that there is no need for crowdfunding or other sources of capital.   

Tommy surly could not have been ready for the unique Curmudgeonry only available on Atari Age. If he gave away the system you would complain about the cost of shipping. It is just how we roll here.

Because they have shown a lot that sells it better:

- they have a plan

- they have identified a market

- they have demo’ed actual hardware

- they have demo’ed software

- the unit will still be priced competitively, even in my belief it may even be as high as $249

has Atari checked any of these milestones?  These are all items that need to be checked off before asking for a dime yet Ataribox believers blew that away on a freaking render

2 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

Again, that was literally the sales pitch of Atari Box.  Custom smaller run versions available only to people that would be willing to pay up front with a regular retail version to follow.  I mean, I have been admittedly skeptical of this project just like I was of Chameleon and Ataribox.  Having said that, Tommy had done a good job of convincing me that the Amico could really be something or at least is worth a chance once things are finalized.  From my perspective, once you go down the road of collecting money almost a year in advance of launch, all bets are off and you are essentially crowdfunding vaporware and the level of scrutiny of every decision goes way, way up.  I'm really not sure why you are so eager to hand over your hard earned money, especially given that Tommy has made it clear that they have plenty of investors and that there is no need for crowdfunding or other sources of capital.   

I just don’t see this as crowed funding this to me is just giving something extra to the fans who have followed the project something special for early adopters.  I for one think it would be worth ordering for the autographed box and the chance to win a tour of Intellivision because to me getting to see that would be the equivalent to me going to Disneyland the other founder bonuses me are just great extras.  

4 minutes ago, BBWW said:

Tommy surly could not have been ready for the unique Curmudgeonry only available on Atari Age. If he gave away the system you would complain about the cost of shipping. It is just how we roll here.

  

 

Not following.  Tommy is talking about opening up pre-orders for something that hasn't even been finalized at this point in the next couple of weeks.  What part of that is free or not worthy comment?

20 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

The people who are being asked for money have done none of those things.  One of the best things Amico had going for it was that it was avoiding the parallels to the Chameleon or the Ataribox.  This just throws it right into that pile and while I personally believe Tommy has a lot of credibility, there really is no reason to be doing something like this when the hardware, pricing and options aren't even finalized.  Maybe a few months before launch when everything is in place, but not ten months out.

Did Chameleon secure $1.3 million last summer from the German government to launch subsidiary and independent developer teams and its offices there?  Did Chameleon secure (at least, only certain numbers are visible) $3 million from startup proposals with the Orange County OCTANe Investor Forum?  Did Chameleon secure funds from the UAE ($2.1m in late 2018) and establish its intent to build a video game developer and manufacturing incubator in UAE/Dubai and the broader Middle East?  I’m sure there are a lot of quieter investors and rounds of funding, and we know Intellivision’s ownership has some of their own funds to put forward... can that be said for the Chameleon, the VCS, the Ouya?

Intellivision has already met with retailers, if they don’t have order numbers at this stage, they will soon, to take to the bank and lenders to secure larger loans for manufacturing and give better numbers to investors.  They’re not crowdfunding the platform.  They’re offering a pre-order to a proposed 1% of their anticipated Holiday 2020 consumer.
 

i don’t think we saw much of any of this or any transparency with the VCS.  The Chameleon never got to that level of funding, it never made it out of design proposal.  Ouya DID secure emergency funding late in the game after it was flailing for months and the project looked desperate.  And it still launched, just with 1300 mobile and PC games at the same time that mobile and PC cheap app games hit the world hard, undercutting any rationale for its being.

This ain’t exactly apples and oranges.  It’s apples and whatever you just stepped in.  Two very different scenarios.

48 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

This was literally the sales pitch on the Atari vaporbox.  It will also allegedly be available at retail or at least from the .com sites of Gamestop and others.  You can still do a founders edition like Google did for Stadia or Microsoft did for Xbox One by opening preorders early but not taking money until it ships.  As of a couple of days ago, Tommy wasn't even sure of the retail pricing, so how can it be the appropriate time to start taking preorders for early adopters?  I mean, if this is the way this thing is going, there literally is no difference between Amico and the Atari vaporbox with the exception of a more enthusiastic salesperson and a somewhat unimpressive Moon Patrol demo.  

That is a pretty bogus statement. First Atari asked for money before they even had a working prototype - the Amico prototype was demoed at E3 of last year with a dozen playable games. Also you are comparing Intellivision to the Atari SA black box which has gone months & months with no updates in the past. Here Tommy basically gives us daily updates. As a result you want to know a few other differences? We have a list of 24 developers working on games, we can tie most of those developers to individual games, videos of the machine & games - including an indepth on the controller, we know that Intellivision got two different grants from the Bavarian government for over 600,000 euros to fund development teams, we know the name of their law firm, patent attorneys & industrial design consultants, we also know the names of their in-house lead engineers, we know who works in the European & Dubai offices, we even freaking know who won 'employee of the year' at the Intellivision Christmas party (it was John Alvarado who heads the API development). To compare Intellivision to the Atari SA 'mystery machine' is totally ridiculous - as is comparing the stage of the development of the Amico to their Indigogo campaign.

1 minute ago, Loafer said:

Because they have shown a lot that sells it better:

 

- they have a plan

- they have identified a market

- they have demo’ed actual hardware

- they have demo’ed software

- the unit will still be priced competitively, even in my belief it may even be as high as $249

 

has Atari checked any of these milestones?  These are all items that need to be checked off before asking for a dime yet Ataribox blew that way on a freaking render

I don't think anybody actually compared it to the scam part of atari and the way I read it I don't see anybody claiming it's scam. We know Tommy is genuine and him and his team have something in the works. We've all seen the demos and expect it to come out. I think people are just pointing out some things that are bothering them because of the way the project was relayed in the beginning to the thread.

1 minute ago, Alpha82 said:

I just don’t see this as crowed funding this to me is just giving something extra to the fans who have followed the project something special for early adopters.  I for one think it would be worth ordering for the autographed box and the chance to win a tour of Intellivision because to me getting to see that would be the equivalent to me going to Disneyland the other founder bonuses me are just great extras.  

Ok and why does the money need to be collected this far in advance?  Like I have mentioned several times now, Google and Microsoft both did Founder's Editions and charged when they shipped.  If this isn't a means of trying to amass some capital, it seems like that would be easy to do here as well and you could still have your special version.

There is no hardware crowdfunding kickstarter/IndieGala that puts a full cap on units.  Atari said “hey, these models we’re capping but here buy as many of the normal edition as you want”.  This is not happening here, I wonder why Tommy isn’t just saying “the door is open how many cans we presell?”

because it isn’t crowdfunding 

2 minutes ago, ColecoJoe said:

I don't think anybody actually compared it to the scam part of atari and the way I read it I don't see anybody claiming it's scam. We know Tommy is genuine and him and his team have something in the works. We've all seen the demos and expect it to come out. I think people are just pointing out some things that are bothering them because of the way the project was relayed in the beginning to the thread.

Exactly.  One of the points of distinction between Amico and Ataribox was that this would not be crowdfunded.  Tommy said that over and over here and elsewhere.  People can call it what they want, but offering 2,000 or so units at $300 each when the hardware is not in production and pricing and some features haven't been finalized, some ten months out, is crowdfunding.  I mean there is literally no reason to go down this road and yet here we are and the only justification seems to be that people trust Tommy so it's ok.  People can do what they want with their money, but not recognizing the disconnect here is pretty disturbing.    

8 minutes ago, ColecoJoe said:

I don't think anybody actually compared it to the scam part of atari and the way I read it I don't see anybody claiming it's scam. We know Tommy is genuine and him and his team have something in the works. We've all seen the demos and expect it to come out. I think people are just pointing out some things that are bothering them because of the way the project was relayed in the beginning to the thread.

Yes; you'll note that everyone questioning the (possibly) drifting price or Founder's Edition is being repsectful, and Tommy himself asked for feedback about the Founder's Edition. I don't think anyone is saying the Amico is a scam. On the other hand, I don't think the Chameleon STARTED as a scam; it just became one when certain people were in over their heads. I suppose the same is true about the Ataribox (probably), but that's another kettle o' fish.

Some of you are very passionate about the Amico, and while I don't quite get the passion for something that isn't in your hands yet, that's fine. I just don't think you should let that passion blind you to questions or criticism. Criticism isn't necessarily bad, you know? 

There seems to be a tendency in this thread of tearing other things down, thinking that builds Amico up. It doesn't.