Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A

12 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Right, but I didn't say it has zero. How long will it take you to beat that Mario game solo? How long Moon Patrol? Mario will have more time most likely. But when you start talking about prices there is a percieved value. Its the...Switch is higher but games are solid and have good playtime, Amico is slightly cheaper, with cheaper games, that are solid and shorter plays. I do think some of those buddies would pick one up for themselves too.

 

Someone said something about bashing the Switch doesn't raise the Amico and I agree. I understand the marketing it towards parents and how 100% is family friendly. But that doesn't mean the Switch has no value either.

 

Also how often do you have 8 friends over to play games?

You didn't, but you removed a good deal of value proposition short of multi-player.  "What incentive is there for all 8 to buy Amico?  If couch co-op is the main draw there is no less of one".

I think there are other draws.

That these games are quick to pick up and quick to put down, it makes it easy to return to for quick, non-progressive play.  I love Breath of the Wild, I'm on my second play-through over the course of the last year.  But it isn't a game I can turn on and play for half an hour.  Bubble Bobble or Gun.Smoke?  Galaga or Raiden?  Chu Chu Rocket?  Those I can pop in and play for 20-30 minutes and feel fully satisfied if I need to put them down and do something else. 

Not every game is about the time to complete or 100% a game.  That's become a focus of games, but needn't always be.  People on the train playing Bejeweled clones or 2048 or whatever.. they may have dozens of hours or over a hundred in a meaningless timewaster.  Maybe it's a high score, maybe just the satisfying act of completing rows.  I've never completed Tetris or Klax.  Still love to play.  And that Moon Patrol?  I don't know that it's a percent completion type game.  Gameplay seems mostly focused on players joining in to stop whoever is the rover, or a 3-player mode where each player controls 1) rotating cannon, 2) acceleration, and 3) jumps.  I don't know how you quantify hours of gameplay for something like that, when the interaction with others is so unique.  I don't know the value of the solo run of Moon Patrol.  From the teaser, it didn't seem particularly engaging for single player, we'll need to see more.  Will it be a game you sink 4 hours into and feel satisfied when solo?  If that's the case, I'd say $10 is value.  $2/hour and fully paid for any future fun.  I'm in.  That $60 Mario Odyssey?  Fantastic.  Dozens of hours.  Great value for me.  Maybe not for someone else.  I don't think Amico games will BE for everyone, but I do think they are aiming at the broadest appeal. 

And I think the simplicity of the controller adds value.  Accessibility for someone who only plays games in a mobile setting can be a god-send.  Again, I love Breath of the Wild.  No way my mom or wife will spend any time trying to figure it out though.  They may love the game and story and immersion, but there's too much in the way of them even trying.  Too many actions to control.  Too many times they'll be in a fight with a clan of bokoblins and throw their weapon when they mean to swing a sword.  Pan a camera when they want to turn around.  Miss an obvious step because they're not gamers and not familiar with expectations the game designer presumes a player will know.  That's value to someone intimidated by the video games aisle.

I don't have 8 friends over too often, you created the scenario.  I was suggesting that if they enjoy playing multi-player, they'll find enjoyment in single player and some will purchase their own.  I do know that I've got a game closet with over 80 board games and we only play them once every couple months - because they're time intensive, not everyone knows all the rules, we need a dry run to initiate.. love playing games, but the nature of board games can be dissuasive.  Can Amico offer a quicker, easy to jump in game session?  Offer individualized instructions, hints, advice on each player's controller/phone app?  That has value to me.  Even if the equivalent board game is $40, that's accessible and quicker to play, making it more likely to actually break out and play with others.

1 minute ago, 1980gamer said:

As far as price creep goes...  Yes, I liked the $150-180 range too.

However, I'd rather pay more for a better quality product.

Great statement! Shows why price comparison to the Switch isn't important too. Yeah its more expensive but it is also a quality product. Just to cover, that doesn't mean since Amico is cheaper it won't be quality.

The question on multiplayer focus: let's remember in mentioning this, Tommy has harked back to the good old days of couch coop gaming. Well, in the good old days, kids couch coop, but each of the families started getting their own consoles too.  Tommy is saying "every game will have couch coop/multiplayer" but he doesn't need to say "every game will have a single player mode" because that's a given; I'm sure single player games will have strong focus as well. 

Multiplayer has never, ever been a limiting factor for not buying a system. if it's good, we all want our own.

18 minutes ago, RetroAdvisoryBoard said:

You didn't, but you removed a good deal of value proposition short of multi-player.  "What incentive is there for all 8 to buy Amico?  If couch co-op is the main draw there is no less of one".

Oh the multiplayer has value but I know I could buy a Switch and my wife and I could easily find that too. About every other week I have 7 people over to play games. It is mainly for D&D but if everyone isn't there yet we sometimes play video games. It is hard to put a value on that, BUT it requires a specific set of situations too. It is cool that the Amico can have up to 8 players. That would able to get me and my siblings all at once. Hell we would need 3 Amicos if we added in spuses and kids in too.

The train comment brings up an interesting point to. There is a huge casual market, but you can't play your Amico while traveling on the train (unless the controllers have some type of memory or whatever). If that group doesn't see the value in the multiplayer why buy the console when they can get short bursts already.

This is all why people have concerns and question some things. There hasn't been much shown and some will have to play and see it in action. I know I want to see it and try it out. 

And you aren't wrong about the value of Moon Patrol. Just because a game is more expensive doesn't mean it isn't worth it, nor is a less expensive game not good or of value.

I'm almost more interested in the original stuff than the reimagined (with the exception of Cloudy Mountain). I want to see what else it has to offer!!

53 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Oh the multiplayer has value but I know I could buy a Switch and my wife and I could easily find that too. About every other week I have 7 people over to play games. It is mainly for D&D but if everyone isn't there yet we sometimes play video games. It is hard to put a value on that, BUT it requires a specific set of situations too. It is cool that the Amico can have up to 8 players. That would able to get me and my siblings all at once. Hell we would need 3 Amicos if we added in spuses and kids in too.

 

The train comment brings up an interesting point to. There is a huge casual market, but you can't play your Amico while traveling on the train (unless the controllers have some type of memory or whatever). If that group doesn't see the value in the multiplayer why buy the console when they can get short bursts already.

 

This is all why people have concerns and question some things. There hasn't been much shown and some will have to play and see it in action. I know I want to see it and try it out. 

 

And you aren't wrong about the value of Moon Patrol. Just because a game is more expensive doesn't mean it isn't worth it, nor is a less expensive game not good or of value.

 

I'm almost more interested in the original stuff than the reimagined (with the exception of Cloudy Mountain). I want to see what else it has to offer!!

 

 

I have zero interest in the switch or modern drawn out games. I like classic style games, motion control games (Switch has a few, but I hear all but a couple are very weak), board games, card games. I'm pretty much the Amico's target audience, even if I were to play alone, but, if you looked through my posts on the INTV forum, you couldn't really call me a Fanboy of Intellivision or the Amico. 

And people ask over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over if casual gamers like playing games on their phone, why would they be interested in the Amico. Do they stop to think that maybe they want to play those sort of games with there friends on a large screen and not the only two or three co-op phone games people bring up over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. I get bored with the repetition.

Reimagined Cloudy Mountain!! That is what I am looking forward to.

*GENUINELY CONCERNED MODE ON*

Hey guys! I wanted to share my negative impressions about this console! I hope I'm not jumped at or my message calling everyone a fanboy and Tommy a spammer doesn't get deleted without any explanation, because...

(10 lines later)

...and I don't want anyone to mention Pat & Ian again, you hear me? Not that I'm the mod or anything but... oh well, I guess I like to speak like I am, it makes me feel powerful! and then I also hate, I mean, I'm worried about...

(10 lines later)

...and why do I need an Amico? Huh? Switch already does that. This is why I'm worried about you guys, because...

(10 lines later)

...and by the way, check out this awesome fake Amico game meme (that somebody obsessed with Tony and banned from this thread spent 10 hours creating and sent me via PM) where I imply that the console is only for old people or retards... Let's laugh together, my friends!

(10 lines later)

...and yes, there are fanboys in this thread! It breaks my heart that people are allowed to like the Amico and pay for a special edition in advance. People should not be allowed to love this console so much! Trust me, I just want to help you...

(10 lines later)

...oh yeah, I forgot to add something so that it looks that I'm not here just to upset people! Let's see, hmmmm.... Hey Tommy, when will be have the next Moon Patrol demo? I know it's the fourth time I ask this over the last days, but I guess everyone here is too stupid to realize!

*GENUINELY CONCERNED MODE OFF*

I hardly think that's fair, and all I read into him not wanting to hear about Pat and Ian again, was that he was personally sick of them being brought up, as in bored with it. I don't read that as trying to mod the place. I'm actually sick of it being brought up too.

What's more disturbing to me is a corporate entity using these forums to repeatedly obsess over some amateur gaming geeks because they don't buy into his schtick or continually disparage leading industry players over their "vile content" while complaining his free speech rights are being violated and that others are being passive aggressive, all while selling his merch and progressing into full on pre-order mode again. If some want to support that to the degree of sycophant, that's their right, but it wears thin on some of us, and has nothing to do with being defensive about those other folks. 

For me this is all about credibility. Like the Ataribox way back when, I've been very interested in this project and cautiously optimistic in support of it. I, for one, intend to pay attention to what's going on rather than jump on the bandwagon no questions asked. I appreciate others asking questions and comparing and contrasting the stated obectives, or challenging some of the tactics at play. I also note the red flags that crop up along the way, especially when they deviate from prior stated plans, best intentions or follow through efforts. That's the value of Atari Age as a gaming industry community, and I would expect anyone who values that would be prepared to see both sides of the coin, especially if they hope to use it to connect with a customer base.

4 hours ago, IntelliMission said:

*GENUINELY CONCERNED MODE ON*

 

Hey guys! I wanted to share my negative impressions about this console! I hope I'm not jumped at or my message calling everyone a fanboy and Tommy a spammer doesn't get deleted without any explanation, because...

 

(10 lines later)

 

...and I don't want anyone to mention Pat & Ian again, you hear me? Not that I'm the mod or anything but... oh well, I guess I like to speak like I am, it makes me feel powerful! and then I also hate, I mean, I'm worried about...

 

(10 lines later)

 

...and why do I need an Amico? Huh? Switch already does that. This is why I'm worried about you guys, because...

 

(10 lines later)

 

...and by the way, check out this awesome fake Amico game meme (that somebody obsessed with Tony and banned from this thread spent 10 hours creating and sent me via PM) where I imply that the console is only for old people or retards... Let's laugh together, my friends!

 

(10 lines later)

 

...and yes, there are fanboys in this thread! It breaks my heart that people are allowed to like the Amico and pay for a special edition in advance. People should not be allowed to love this console so much! Trust me, I just want to help you...

 

(10 lines later)

 

...oh yeah, I forgot to add something so that it looks that I'm not here just to upset people! Let's see, hmmmm.... Hey Tommy, when will be have the next Moon Patrol demo? I know it's the fourth time I ask this over the last days, but I guess everyone here is too stupid to realize!

 

*GENUINELY CONCERNED MODE OFF*

Haha

I'll post this one again.

2 hours ago, JBerel said:

I hardly think that's fair, and all I read into him not wanting to hear about Pat and Ian again, was that he was personally sick of them being brought up, as in bored with it. I don't read that as trying to mod the place. I'm actually sick of it being brought up too.

 

What's more disturbing to me is a corporate entity using these forums to repeatedly obsess over some amateur gaming geeks because they don't buy into his schtick or continually disparage leading industry players over their "vile content" while complaining his free speech rights are being violated and that others are being passive aggressive, all while selling his merch and progressing into full on pre-order mode again. If some want to support that to the degree of sycophant, that's their right, but it wears thin on some of us, and has nothing to do with being defensive about those other folks. 

 

For me this is all about credibility. Like the Ataribox way back when, I've been very interested in this project and cautiously optimistic in support of it. I, for one, intend to pay attention to what's going on rather than jump on the bandwagon no questions asked. I appreciate others asking questions and comparing and contrasting the stated obectives, or challenging some of the tactics at play. I also note the red flags that crop up along the way, especially when they deviate from prior stated plans, best intentions or follow through efforts. That's the value of Atari Age as a gaming industry community, and I would expect anyone who values that would be prepared to see both sides of the coin, especially if they hope to use it to connect with a customer base.

I guess it hard to grasp that someone can be excited for and want something, and also not just assume everything will be great or that there won't be problems. 

Funny thing is someone could easily say they make fun of Pat and Ian to make themselves feel powerful. I don't think that's what it is. I think it stems from wanting to defend something you are excited for. 

Hell the only reason any of my family know of this thing is I've been talking to them during my D&D nights about this new system that sounds like its going to be heavy into co-op and sounds like it could be exciting. When scam is brought up its only tied to the shoebox.

Guess its only okay to be an extreme believer anymore.

🤷‍♂️❤🌈🐇🦄

Does anyone remember when we used to talk about the upcoming release of the Amico from Intellivision Entertainment?

As an Intellivision Fan from the very beginning, I am hoping for a lot of the CLASSIC feel, but not constrained by 1978 technology.

I don't want long load times or downloading a patch every time I turn the system on. etc.  ( yes, I expect fixes and new features will be needed )

But I play classic systems and my NDS because I can plug in a cart and play!  I don't need or want a game that takes weeks to finish.

I truly do not have the will or patients for that type of game.  That is me, I have many friends that want that.  Great.  I have 10 minute right now, I don't want to wait 8 minutes to start playing!

I never knew until a High Score challenge, how hard Astrosmash got.  I would play for a few hours, 400K with 250 extra ships and say... I've had enough.

I am most hopeful for this system to be what I want because of Tommy.

He is an Intellivision fan.

He is passionate about this project.

He has industry knowledge and smart enough to put top people around him.

AND He is here listing to us fans too.  We all have unique wants for the system and software.  I am trusting him to filter this noise into a system I will love, like a 1980Gamer!

10/10/2020!!!!!!!

5 hours ago, IntelliMission said:

*GENUINELY CONCERNED MODE ON*

 

Hey guys! I wanted to share my negative impressions about this console! I hope I'm not jumped at or my message calling everyone a fanboy and Tommy a spammer doesn't get deleted without any explanation, because...

 

(10 lines later)

 

...and I don't want anyone to mention Pat & Ian again, you hear me? Not that I'm the mod or anything but... oh well, I guess I like to speak like I am, it makes me feel powerful! and then I also hate, I mean, I'm worried about...

 

(10 lines later)

 

...and why do I need an Amico? Huh? Switch already does that. This is why I'm worried about you guys, because...

 

(10 lines later)

 

...and by the way, check out this awesome fake Amico game meme (that somebody obsessed with Tony and banned from this thread spent 10 hours creating and sent me via PM) where I imply that the console is only for old people or retards... Let's laugh together, my friends!

 

(10 lines later)

 

...and yes, there are fanboys in this thread! It breaks my heart that people are allowed to like the Amico and pay for a special edition in advance. People should not be allowed to love this console so much! Trust me, I just want to help you...

 

(10 lines later)

 

...oh yeah, I forgot to add something so that it looks that I'm not here just to upset people! Let's see, hmmmm.... Hey Tommy, when will be have the next Moon Patrol demo? I know it's the fourth time I as🤣k this over the last days, but I guess everyone here is too stupid to realize!

 

*GENUINELY CONCERNED MODE OFF*

You're a Virgo, aren't you? 🤣

3 hours ago, JBerel said:

I hardly think that's fair, and all I read into him not wanting to hear about Pat and Ian again, was that he was personally sick of them being brought up, as in bored with it. I don't read that as trying to mod the place. I'm actually sick of it being brought up too.

The tone of the statement was paternalistic. 

He was acting like the father who yells "If you kids don't stop fighting back there, then I'm going to turn this car around and head right back home! No Six Flags today!"

19 hours ago, GrudgeQ said:

That is a pretty bogus statement. First Atari asked for money before they even had a working prototype - the Amico prototype was demoed at E3 of last year with a dozen playable games. Also you are comparing Intellivision to the Atari SA black box which has gone months & months with no updates in the past. Here Tommy basically gives us daily updates. As a result you want to know a few other differences? We have a list of 24 developers working on games, we can tie most of those developers to individual games, videos of the machine & games - including an indepth on the controller, we know that Intellivision got two different grants from the Bavarian government for over 600,000 euros to fund development teams, we know the name of their law firm, patent attorneys & industrial design consultants, we also know the names of their in-house lead engineers, we know who works in the European & Dubai offices, we even freaking know who won 'employee of the year' at the Intellivision Christmas party (it was John Alvarado who heads the API development). To compare Intellivision to the Atari SA 'mystery machine' is totally ridiculous - as is comparing the stage of the development of the Amico to their Indigogo campaign.

It's insulting is what it is.  After everything we've done and shared over the past 2 years to compare us to the VCS is pretty shameful.

19 hours ago, ColecoJoe said:

I don't think anybody actually compared it to the scam part of atari and the way I read it I don't see anybody claiming it's scam. We know Tommy is genuine and him and his team have something in the works. We've all seen the demos and expect it to come out. I think people are just pointing out some things that are bothering them because of the way the project was relayed in the beginning to the thread.

And nothing has changed. 

Here is just a few reasons why from a business standpoint this is such a GREAT idea.

1.  Thousands of people have asked us to a special Founder's Edition and 98% of folks LOVE the idea.  

2.  Retailers think it's a great idea to see how much better a pre-sale does compared with "other" consoles.  They start sending purchase orders in late Feb., early March (for winter products). 

3.  Investors are very curious to see if there are 10 pre-orders or thousands (for anyone who knows anything about raising money... you NEVER stop... there can always be MORE marketing, etc.)

4.  It's a GREAT story and marketing tool if we sell out or sell a lot immediately.

There are a ton of other reasons this all makes sense and I understand that from the "outside" some folks may not understand.  That's okay.  Quite frankly... I don't care.  I do what's right for the company and the project.  

 

19 hours ago, bojay1997 said:

Ok and why does the money need to be collected this far in advance?  Like I have mentioned several times now, Google and Microsoft both did Founder's Editions and charged when they shipped.  If this isn't a means of trying to amass some capital, it seems like that would be easy to do here as well and you could still have your special version.

If you only collect "$10" as some folks suggested... then it isn't considered a "real" pre-order to professionals because it doesn't show real commitment.  So you want to pick a number that isn't too crazy, but show commitment.  And as I continue to say... It's refundable... so if you want to give up your Founder's Edition in June after you see the games and aren't happy.  By all means... get your money back.  Although I guarantee whether you personally like it or not... I bet these Founder's Editions will be going for HUGE bucks on EBay!  So if nothing else... it's a great way for folks to turn a quick profit.   

 

19 hours ago, bojay1997 said:

Exactly.  One of the points of distinction between Amico and Ataribox was that this would not be crowdfunded.  Tommy said that over and over here and elsewhere.  People can call it what they want, but offering 2,000 or so units at $300 each when the hardware is not in production and pricing and some features haven't been finalized, some ten months out, is crowdfunding.  I mean there is literally no reason to go down this road and yet here we are and the only justification seems to be that people trust Tommy so it's ok.  People can do what they want with their money, but not recognizing the disconnect here is pretty disturbing.    

No it isn't.  This is not crowdfunding.  Not going to argue with you.  We'll agree to disagree on this one.  No worries.

To say it's "pretty disturbing" for people not "realizing the disconnect" is exactly what I could say as well.



 

19 hours ago, dj_convoy said:

Yes; you'll note that everyone questioning the (possibly) drifting price or Founder's Edition is being repsectful, and Tommy himself asked for feedback about the Founder's Edition. I don't think anyone is saying the Amico is a scam. On the other hand, I don't think the Chameleon STARTED as a scam; it just became one when certain people were in over their heads. I suppose the same is true about the Ataribox (probably), but that's another kettle o' fish.

 

Some of you are very passionate about the Amico, and while I don't quite get the passion for something that isn't in your hands yet, that's fine. I just don't think you should let that passion blind you to questions or criticism. Criticism isn't necessarily bad, you know? 

 

There seems to be a tendency in this thread of tearing other things down, thinking that builds Amico up. It doesn't. 

 

 

 

I must say (from the man wearing the shoes) that being accused of "going back on my word" and comparing Amico to the VCS is a little insulting.

That isn't constructive criticism.

I totally get that folks may not like the idea.  And the overwhelming majority (and others associated with the project) have spoken and think it's a GREAT idea so I've made the decision to move forward.  It's the way people go about stating things here that sometimes crosses the line (IMO) considering how much I've been open shared with everyone here.  

19 hours ago, Loafer said:

There is nothing wrong with saying “I don’t like that they are asking for money in advance”.  That’s cool, I alluded to this earlier.  But please, the comparison to Ataribox is what is setting some of us off here and with good reason.  
 

let’s not play the “it’s just concern and opinions “ card after opening that Pandora’s box lol

Agreed.

19 hours ago, JBerel said:

Just to remain objective and unemotional about what we're talking about, it's been suggested that it's easy to be critical of a project because you don't have to do anything.  Firstly, it's not critical to challenge assumptions rather than buy into everything hook line and sinker. It's worth remembering the same applies to actually delivering on a product. It's real easy to talk about it, and how great it is and so forth, it's another thing entirely to get funding, complete testing and production, bring to market, and deliver a viable commercial success. 

 

If anybody....anybody...asks for money up front for something they don't have yet, that requires extra scrutiny to put it mildly. They are getting an unsecured loan from you in that scenario with no collateral, so any intelligent person should require documented protections. Lord knows crowdfunding outfits write up a bunch of stuff to justify their added charges for being the middleman, but actually provide no real protections. Offering money up front on a promise of delivery on something that is not in existence or even in production is a bigger risk. In the scenario we're discussing, the difference is the folks asking for your money don't even pay a crowdfunding site their cut and aren't subject to even the laughable protections those sites supposedly offer.

 

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, and I hope this thing is successful, I really do. It's just the notions bantered about lately that more than 2000 people may be expected to pay up front for this when there is little more than talk and embellishments, mostly conducted over the internet, is a huge red flag. When they said, I read it on the internet so it must be true, they were making a joke. These things go sideways all the live long day.

Not really a risk if it's 100% refundable and only a small portion of the total.  But I can appreciate and understand why folks would feel that way.  That's fine.  Those folks should definitely NOT pre-order a Founder's Edition if they in any way feel uncomfortable.  

In "crowdfunding" projects at the end of the 30 day period 100% of the money is collected before the project really even starts.  We are unique in so many ways and are doing very unique things in very different ways.  

I never got the feeling this Founders Edition was a “crowd funding” ploy, merely a perk for people who are super excited and like collecting console variations!

Some people just wanna complain and that is their right, I’ll ignore them and enjoy my super rare Amico founders edition 😁

18 hours ago, dj_convoy said:

I was the one that made a comparison to the Chameleon, and explained what part of it I thought it echoed. I did not say the Amico was a stupid scam like the Chameleon (quite the opposite). I just don't get doing a Founder's version when the nuts and bolts of the plain jane, normal Amico apparently are still up in the air. It seems like resources and time that could be better spent elsewhere, but YMMV. 

 

I'm not implying blind fanboyism, Grudge; I'm outright stating it's here. I see examples of it constantly in this thread, and it's a huge turn off. I don't understand it, especially on a forum which I generally equate with critical thinking and people not being dazzled by salesmanship. If you want to love the Amico, more power to you, but please don't give those who are skeptical or cautious about it a hard time. And maybe, for the love of Tallerico, wait until there's something to love, yes? Or at least don't get so invested. I would have hoped, as a forum, that we could all be a bit more adult about something like this, especially when you have the head of the project interacting with everyone, but instead, it's all "Nintendo is bad because porn" or "ZOMG curly haired one is bad" or "The price is going up? I don't mind because couch co-op."

 

This is a unique opportunity to be in on the ground floor of seeing the development of a console that seems to have some love and care and thought put into it. That's neat, so I get the excitement. What I don't get is, when criticism is leveled, or unfavorable comparisons are made, how up in arms some here seem to get. It's weird. The cult of personalty amongst the hardcore* faithful that is starting to take shape is weird and, frankly, not a mile apart from the people who have adopted the Ataribox like it's some kind of religion. 

 

 

*which is ironic because, from what Tommy says, the hardcore are not who this is being pointed at

You say people should wait until there is something to love... this statement is absolutely baffling to me.  For 2 years we've given every shred of info we possible can and people LOVE the message, the product, the previewed gameplay, the openness of the company, the team I've assembled... and everything from our logo to bringing back couch co-op.  So although you may not be sold on the idea (which I totally respect and understand) to say that others are "blindly" following whatever I say or are fanboys no matter what... is naive and disrespectful to them in my opinion.  A breakdown of the argument is...  "I'm not 100% sold on the concept as I feel that I haven't seen or played it to make a decision for myself... but anyone who DOES is a blind fanboy with no sense."  Just letting you know... that's how I am reading your post above.  If that isn't what you're saying... then explain more in detail.  Because that's what it sounds like to me.  But maybe you don't mean it that way.

You also state that you find it "weird" when people give information about people's thoughts or criticism.  Again... what the heck is that all about???  People aren't allowed to give counterpoints to arguments now?  If someone brings up something they don't like and others chime in to give their thoughts as to why they disagree or to give more information that may give them a better insight... this is "weird" to you???  Sounds like communism to me.  Oh sorry... not supposed to bring up politics.   

I don't mean any disrespect in this post... just giving you a counterpoint to your statements.  Please don't find it "weird". 

18 hours ago, 1001lives said:

I think if the console was presented to us as a finished product with previews for all the games it is launching with that would be a new story. The controller, what it does, what's new, etc.

 

"This is what you WILL be getting on launch day! Pre-order's are now open for a special edition."

 

But because this is presented as an unfinished WIP console... asking for even 30% capital up front seems like crowdfunding as whatever the console is, we do not know yet, so is subject to change.

 

That is not something I want to put money on and is why I did not pay for AtariBox. 

Totally fine and I totally respect that.  The Founder's Edition is DEFINITELY NOT for you.  Best to just wait and play the console when you have a chance and make your decision then.  This is what 99% of the folks buying the console will do.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  But it's also important to understand that some folks prefer to be a little special and have something super unique.  And there's nothing wrong with that either.

p.s.  It's not crowdfunding.  Crowdfunding is taking 100% of someone's money up front before they even start the project.  Atari VCS is a perfect example of this.  

Let me give folks another example... there is a HUGE waiting list for new model Ferrari's.  Even before people get a chance to test drive them.  They may see some specs, some pics... but they scurry to their local dealer to put down HUGE amounts of money (that is 100% refundable) in order to get a low edition number of the car (or in certain cases "Special Editions".  We're doing the same.  Yes... we haven't been around as long as Ferrari and they come out with cars all the time... but they've also had some "stinkers" along the way... so nothing is guaranteed. 

18 hours ago, mr_me said:

If they have secured all the money they need to develop the product through investors and venture capital, and then get manufacturing money from banks based on purchase orders they have in hand from large retailers, then by definition it is not crowdfunded.

We've actually secured over $150M already for pipeline manufacturing.  Part of the reason I was in China last month. 

Something else I think is kinda assuming in this entire argument is that if we apply the thoughts of some folks about what constitutes "crowdfunding" I guess you could say that ANY company funded by Venture Capitol ON THE PLANET is considered "crowdfunding".  Spending money before they see a product. 

4 hours ago, JBerel said:

 

What's more disturbing to me is a corporate entity using these forums to repeatedly obsess over some amateur gaming geeks because they don't buy into his schtick or continually disparage leading industry players over their "vile content" while complaining his free speech rights are being violated and that others are being passive aggressive, all while selling his merch and progressing into full on pre-order mode again. If some want to support that to the degree of sycophant, that's their right, but it wears thin on some of us, and has nothing to do with being defensive about those other folks. 

 

This paragraph boggles my mind.  This thread was created by the corporate entity known as Tommy to promote the Amico product.  If you don’t buy into the corporate entity’s schtick, exactly why are you here?  I’m not inviting you to leave, I’m curious what makes your world go round here because that paragraph goes beyond just being concerned about a founders edition.  It is insulting not only to Tommy but to all of us who see positive value here.

ie:  this is a thread for fans of the product.  Most who approve of the founders edition have even stated they get why people may not like it but we do.  Of course, we are obviously just being sheep.

you are right, there are some who are wearing thin...