Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A

2 hours ago, bojay1997 said:

The people who are being asked for money have done none of those things.  One of the best things Amico had going for it was that it was avoiding the parallels to the Chameleon or the Ataribox.  This just throws it right into that pile and while I personally believe Tommy has a lot of credibility, there really is no reason to be doing something like this when the hardware, pricing and options aren't even finalized.  Maybe a few months before launch when everything is in place, but not ten months out.

There's a LOT of great reasons.  I will detail some of them later tonight if I have time.

1 hour ago, RetroAdvisoryBoard said:

I don’t think they are worried about it.  The total income would be $780,000 on 2600 units.  Minus production costs, minus some expenses in packaging, it may only be an influx of $780,000 now for $500,000 or $600,000 in e lenses later.  They’ve discussed doing special things for Intellivision fans as far as sneak peaks and offers, so, not so out an idea.

 

But investors, they have funded start-ups, who specialize in venture capital funding, they are probably asking, “Why AREN’T you doing this?”  Plus those investors seeding funds want to take details back to their broader fund managers and show them, “look, they had an initial offer of 2600 units, it sold out in 48 hours.”  “Why only 2600?”  “A stick in the eye at their old rivalry with Atari”.  ::points out the superficial troubles VCS is going through:: “Intellivision is going to make a play for that retro market as well, people getting an Atari are getting a PC/tv box crossover to program.  Zero casual appeal.  Intellivision is trying to absorb that market though.  Retro and casual, families and budget-minded”

 

I can see where a pre-order is a big fulfillment to 1) fans, 2) investors, and 3) retail order purchasers looking for SOME number to gauge interest in a product field they aren’t super knowledgeable about.  And it’s different from crowd-funding, which has tiers to help build toward if goals are met, usually the product isn’t in production, may not even have a proof of concept.  This is more icing on the cake.  But parties need to see the frosting if they’re going to fund the bakery’s expansion plans.

You got most of the reasons correct!

But the numbers and $ is way off as we would only probably ask for 30% down and it would be 100% refundable! 

1 hour ago, bojay1997 said:

Again, that was literally the sales pitch of Atari Box.  Custom smaller run versions available only to people that would be willing to pay up front with a regular retail version to follow.  I mean, I have been admittedly skeptical of this project just like I was of Chameleon and Ataribox.  Having said that, Tommy had done a good job of convincing me that the Amico could really be something or at least is worth a chance once things are finalized.  From my perspective, once you go down the road of collecting money almost a year in advance of launch, all bets are off and you are essentially crowdfunding vaporware and the level of scrutiny of every decision goes way, way up.  I'm really not sure why you are so eager to hand over your hard earned money, especially given that Tommy has made it clear that they have plenty of investors and that there is no need for crowdfunding or other sources of capital.   

I'm curious to know what your feelings are now that you understand that we would only be asking for a fraction of the amount and that it is 100% refundable.

Please let me know your thoughts.  I'm curious.

10 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

 

Lots of reasons.  Not going to go into detail right now (in the airport headed to CES in Vegas)... but lots of different business reasons.  

I mean, I'm sure it's a useful marketing tool, if nothing else

1 hour ago, BBWW said:

Tommy surly could not have been ready for the unique Curmudgeonry only available on Atari Age. If he gave away the system you would complain about the cost of shipping. It is just how we roll here.

  

 

Haha Haha!  OK... You win the internet today too!

Plane on runway... My responses to be continued...

1 minute ago, dj_convoy said:

I mean, I'm sure it's a useful marketing tool, if nothing else

Heck yeah it is!

Just now, Tommy Tallarico said:

 

Haha Haha!  OK... You win the internet today too!

 

Plane on runway... My responses to be continued...

 

 

No.  No.  I'm not sharing the internet. 

"Mom get off the phone, it's 9:30, you promised I could have half an hour online and my girlfriend [in theory, in Canada] isn't going to wait for me [in the 'Feeling Flirty' chatroom]!  It's my internet time!"

I think if the console was presented to us as a finished product with previews for all the games it is launching with that would be a new story. The controller, what it does, what's new, etc.

"This is what you WILL be getting on launch day! Pre-order's are now open for a special edition."

But because this is presented as an unfinished WIP console... asking for even 30% capital up front seems like crowdfunding as whatever the console is, we do not know yet, so is subject to change.

That is not something I want to put money on and is why I did not pay for AtariBox. 

If they have secured all the money they need to develop the product through investors and venture capital, and then get manufacturing money from banks based on purchase orders they have in hand from large retailers, then by definition it is not crowdfunded.

Yeah, but that "if" you drop in there so nonchalantly is the real trick isn't it? If people are being objective, that's a whole lot to assume on face value or somebody's word.

2 hours ago, Swami said:

Really?? Really???🤣

I should point out this was directed towards Bojay and not Tommy. I though it ridiculous for one: Pushing the panic button of chameleon and VCS when nothing was even settled on, among so many others. I see this being mistakenly trolled about throughout the blogosphere for weeks as some crazy rumor now, from experience with the blogosphere. 

5 minutes ago, JBerel said:

Yeah, but that "if" you drop in there so nonchalantly is the real trick isn't it? If people are being objective, that's a whole lot to assume on face value or somebody's word.

Tommy has already said he's got VCs and investors secured and funding the project. At this point the "if" question is more "Do I believe him, or is he full of shit?" It's not my place to answer that. Only your wallet can.

25 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

 

I'm curious to know what your feelings are now that you understand that we would only be asking for a fraction of the amount and that it is 100% refundable.

 

Please let me know your thoughts.  I'm curious.

 

 

Honestly, I'm less troubled by it, but I still think you are giving up a major point of differentiation with those other projects you don't want to be lumped into with this.  I get why it might be tempting, but until you have final hardware and locked down costs, I just don't see the rationale behind doing this.  Nothing will be lost by waiting a few more months until everything is finalized and certainly, by collecting even deposits now, you are opening Amico up to some potentially harsh criticism from the gaming press who may already be very skeptical.   

18 minutes ago, Swami said:

I should point out this was directed towards Bojay and not Tommy. I though it ridiculous for one: Pushing the panic button of chameleon and VCS when nothing was even settled on, among so many others. I see this being mistakenly trolled about throughout the blogosphere for weeks as some crazy rumor now, from experience with the blogosphere. 

Not sure why you consider it to be a "panic button".  As I explained elsewhere, the really big differentiator every time someone has been overly critical of Amico on the VCS thread or on other forums and the cleanest point of difference between Amico and those other failed projects is the assurance that investors are paying for development and that it will be a regular retail project.  The second you start taking deposits for whatever reason, you wipe away that distinction and while you may consider Chameleon to be too extreme to be a credible comparison, I would point out that people were also ready to throw money at it and did during the brief period it was open for preorder.  I mean, they even had legitimate industry figures attached and a physical shell which in retrospect turned out not to be worth anything.  While I think Amico has shown a lot more than this and I have every reason to believe Tommy is credible and sincere, it just seems like more trouble than it's worth when you consider the likely reaction from the media and elsewhere.    

4 minutes ago, bojay1997 said:

Not sure why you consider it to be a "panic button".  As I explained elsewhere, the really big differentiator every time someone has been overly critical of Amico on the VCS thread or on other forums and the cleanest point of difference between Amico and those other failed projects is the assurance that investors are paying for development and that it will be a regular retail project.  The second you start taking deposits for whatever reason, you wipe away that distinction and while you may consider Chameleon to be too extreme to be a credible comparison, I would point out that people were also ready to throw money at it and did during the brief period it was open for preorder.  I mean, they even had legitimate industry figures attached and a physical shell which in retrospect turned out not to be worth anything.  While I think Amico has shown a lot more than this and I have every reason to believe Tommy is credible and sincere, it just seems like more trouble than it's worth when you consider the likely reaction from the media and elsewhere.    

I think it was mountain out of a molehill, but it is some small risk. On the other hand, Tommy is taking a risk as well, like the guy who made 500 jaguar pro controller clones based on posted interest and lost money because only half the people followed through. 

40 minutes ago, mr_me said:

If they have secured all the money they need to develop the product through investors and venture capital, and then get manufacturing money from banks based on purchase orders they have in hand from large retailers, then by definition it is not crowdfunded.

If it is an unfinished platform that is still changing and has not been presented as a final completed product, some or all of the pre-order funds could be allocated to design, research, etc. which would be a similar model of alternative financing to crowdfunding, even if part of the system was already funded by investors.

To be honest, we don't know the exact numbers and Tommy doesn't need to share. All his job is to do is share the finished product we're buying or pre-ordering, but in articles from last month he was still saying patents aren't done and changing button layouts.

So to me that is at least a partially crowdfunded product with reward of finished product... He also reaps benefits of paying no kickstarer percentage or third party cut of the funds... Reads less like a pre-order of a finished product and more of a plan to get 10 month early funds this way.

Just my thought, I still want Amico and can see why investors and retailers alike would be pushing Tommy to offer a special edition. 

23 minutes ago, 1001lives said:

I think if the console was presented to us as a finished product with previews for all the games it is launching with that would be a new story. The controller, what it does, what's new, etc.

 

"This is what you WILL be getting on launch day! Pre-order's are now open for a special edition."

 

But because this is presented as an unfinished WIP console... asking for even 30% capital up front seems like crowdfunding as whatever the console is, we do not know yet, so is subject to change.

 

That is not something I want to put money on and is why I did not pay for AtariBox. 

I will jump on the bandwagon that comparing this to the Atari VCS II is a grossly unfair comparison.

Atari collected 100% of the units cost up front though indiegogo. They so far has had a public VCS-related scandal where Rob Wyatt, the system architect for the VCS, walked off stating he had not been paid in six months by Atari. They have also missed multiple deadlines (Units were supposed to be shipping December, 2019; and they have yet to get out of the prototype stage January, 2020). Atari's main reveal for a year and a halfs work on the VCS is a few prototype shells, there is nothing known about the operating system, games, or who is developing for it.

Then you have Amico. Tommy has stated that the pre-order cost is 30% (100$, give or take), and is fully refundable if the final product is not what you were expecting. There have been videos showcasing the work being done on the unit and controllers, as well as teasers of some of the games being released on it.

I know looking at both consoles which one seems to be further ahead in development (hardware, software and games), knows what they are doing, and less likely to be released without being a budget Linux micro-PC dressed up in a snazzy shell.

I also would be a lot more confident in putting a 100% refundable 100$ deposit on a Amico then dropping 249$ into pre-ordering a VCS II.

Tommy is great at hyping his product, but he also has revealed there is a product in development; which is more then one can say for the VCS II.

We're talking about $200k, all 100% refundable.  It's a tiny fraction of their development costs, let alone their marketing budget, and manufacturing costs.  It's completely insignificant.

Hey look here man my name is Juice I was wondering will you be making a Thunder Castle game? and will there be a wrestling game coming out? thanks

2 minutes ago, mr_me said:

We're talking about $200k, all 100% refundable.  It's a tiny fraction of their development costs, let alone their marketing budget, and manufacturing costs.  It's completely insignificant.

Boy, I strongly disagree with that. 

Not too long from now they should start manufacturing.  If they raised $40M from other sources then $200k would be less than half of one percent.  Still it can pay for one engineer's salary over the product's development.

No, I get that. It's writing off anybody's money as "insignificant." 

35 minutes ago, dj_convoy said:

No, I get that. It's writing off anybody's money as "insignificant." 

I don’t want to put words in his mouth but I think he meant they could absorb it if they had to refund it all. 

Hi all,

a quick question. Some friends were discussing the new PS5 controller with a screen and saying how cool it is - that is if it doesn't cripple the controller battery. Do you know what the battery life of the Amico controller will be? Sorry if this has already been answered.

regards

Tony

3 hours ago, bojay1997 said:

Honestly, posts like this break my heart and I see them all the time on limited game groups or other limited collectibles forums.  If you're really in a position where $300 or so is going to potentially wipe you out, having flexibility with your money over the next 10 months is far more valuable than any Founder's Edition.    

I’m not saying that the $300 now or then would break me all I’m saying is we never know what the future holds, so I might fall ill and have to pay a hospital bill or the car breaks down or the heater breaks down in the house and if I preorder an item and can pay now great I personally prefer that over a preorder where the money is taken out in the future because my luck something expensive will break down and need replacing that could use up the bulk of my savings. Hence my preference is to pay on preorder when placed and not some future date thst is all I meant