Independent Amico Discussion Thread

[+Swami]

25 minutes ago, spoonman said:

Yeah, I figured I'd follow this thread. Some of the others seemed to be a bit one sided. I've been watching and reading up on the Amico since it was first announced and I'm trying to wrap my head around who it's for and if it's something I need to get. Thus far I still can't answer either of those questions.

I will say that I found the trashing of modern consoles as part of the Amico sales pitch to be a bit off-putting. I'm still very curious and look forward to seeing more game demos though.

 

I don't see it as trashing. He's just saying what they have that he is marketing away from...marketing to people who want something different. If f he seems to be bashing the Switch, it's only because it gets brought up so many times by people as being the same thing. He's said the Wii, Switch and PS4 are great consoles and everybody bashes the WiiU. I'm not sure he's even spent any significant time on the Switch's real issue which is the high controller failure rate.

[Shawn]

nm, not worth mentioning.

[roots.genoa]

2 hours ago, spoonman said:

I didn't even know they had brought BT back for current gen (BurgerTime Party) until recently. It looks decent enough, perhaps the graphics look a bit like an Adobe Flash animation, but as games like Castle Crashers have proven, it's more about the game play and co-op. I'll grab the physical copy when the price drops a bit. It supports 4 player local co-op and online as well.

I haven't played it yet either but created a thread about it. Tommy Tallarico doesn't like the look of it apparently!

 

[spoonman]

1 hour ago, Swami said:

I don't see it as trashing. He's just saying what they have that he is marketing away from...marketing to people who want something different. If f he seems to be bashing the Switch, it's only because it gets brought up so many times by people as being the same thing. He's said the Wii, Switch and PS4 are great consoles and everybody bashes the WiiU. I'm not sure he's even spent any significant time on the Switch's real issue which is the high controller failure rate.

I've been hearing that the PS4 and Switch just don't have many family oriented games. Not enough couch co-op games, and one outrageous claim that the Nintendo Switch has, and I quote "full genitalia, Child rape and molestation" source in their games! This is either a huge exaggeration or Nintendo is about to be shut down. And again, when I asked which commercial Nintendo games had that content... Nothing. No proof. Because it isn't true. 

 

Some of this annoys me since I used to manage game stores where parents would ask for appropriate games for their children, and there were always tons of great age appropriate titles for them. Suggesting otherwise is just not being truthful. Just because a console also has titles for other age levels (certainly not child porn!) should not hurt the platform as a whole. This is why we have ESRB ratings, and parents who can implement locks so that children are unable to see or purchase anything higher than an E rated title. 

 

And one more thing.. He talks about the Amico not being aimed at the PS5 / Xbox Series X crowd, but then comparisons are made on those consoles compared to the Amico. "Play a game with your buddies on the PS5...it will cost you $800".

 

[mr_me]

That's correct, they are targeting people that wouldn't buy playstation, xbox, or switch.  I expect much of their marketing this summer will be towards young families.

Edited February 9, 2020 by mr_me

[+kevtris]

Has there been any theories on the exact SOC that is going to be used on the Amico?  I have a few theories and figured I might as well post 'em.  

 

My first guess is the Allwinner A83T.   This appears to be an extremely close fit to the information released so far:

 

* 2GB Maximum RAM

* 1.8MHz, 8 CPU cores

* Raw NAND flash support (for the 16GB of onboard flash)

* Ethernet, Wifi, USB

* HDMI port

* Can run Android/Linux

 

The A83T is available on the "Banana Pi" board which is an obvious take on the "Raspberry Pi". 

Banana Pi:

http://www.banana-pi.org/m3.html

Quickie data sheet with some basic specs and such:

https://github.com/allwinner-zh/documents/blob/master/A83T/A83T_Datasheet_v1.3_20150510.pdf

Info on the included GPU:

https://www.imgtec.com/blog/the-powervr-sgx544mp-a-modern-gpu-for-todays-leading-platforms/

 

 

The second guess is the Qualcomm SDM450.  It isn't as close of a fit but still fairly similar.

 

* Maximum RAM is not specified

* 1.8MHz, 8 CPU cores

* Ethernet, Wifi, USB

* Not sure if it has HDMI

* Can run Android/Linux

 

This one is really designed for cell phones and tablets, so it has things like a cellular radio that the Amico most likely won't use.

Qualcomm's page on it:

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon-450-mobile-platform

 

So I'm leaning towards the A83T, especially since the dev team could just use that Banana Pi dev board as their base and plug everything they require into it.  That'd make development a snap.  The Banana Pi board costs $59.99 on amazon.   Throw on a USB hub for the multiple devices they want to include (multiple USB ports,  RFID), and the board has everything else the Amico requires by the looks of it-  HDMI out, ethernet, wifi and bluetooth.  It also has 8GB of NAND flash (the Amico will have 16GB but this is an easy upgrade when transitioning to final hardware), The 2GB of RAM is already on the board as well.  It's almost a tailor-made Amico board as-is.  There's some general purpose IO and probably I^2C/SPI which would be quite easy to connect to the RGB LEDs on the base unit.  It comes running Android by the looks of it,  and going by the Night Stalker video, they are running the games on Android (you can see the Android buttons pop up at the end on the screen at the bottom).  They could be running it stock just to get development rolling.

 

It will be interesting to look back on this when hardware info is eventually released.

 

 

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, spoonman said:

Sorry for the late response, I just found this thread.

Man, I am a huge BurgerTime fan! I used to play it all the time in the arcade and then loved playing the ColecoVision port as well. The NES port is excellent as well. I'm always up for more of that.

 

I didn't even know they had brought BT back for current gen (BurgerTime Party) until recently. It looks decent enough, perhaps the graphics look a bit like an Adobe Flash animation, but as games like Castle Crashers have proven, it's more about the game play and co-op. I'll grab the physical copy when the price drops a bit. It supports 4 player local co-op and online as well.

 

 

 

Awesome game. I just picked this up on the Switch,under the "Johnny Turbo " brand.

All of those classic Data East games are on sale now for only $1.99. I also grabbed Heavy Burger. An absolute love letter to fans of Data East arcade cabs and twin stick shooters such as Robotron: 2084! Also has 4 player co-op as well.

 

 

Is R-Type coming to the Amico? Better hope those controllers are latency free and can handle a "beating" and being thrown! haha.. R-Type games are often pretty brutal "old school tough". Hopefully they can add a co-op mode like they did with R-Type Dimensions. That was an awesome port with new 3D perspective views and a new soundtrack, both of which could be toggled on-the-fly. 

Welcome. Yeah that BT looks like it could be fun. Never seen or heard that one.

 

I don't think you will have to worry about the controls for R-Type. Since it will be something they remake as opposed to direct port I'm assuming. There are a lot of exciting game possibilities.

[MrBeefy]

6 minutes ago, kevtris said:

Has there been any theories on the exact SOC that is going to be used on the Amico?  I have a few theories and figured I might as well post 'em.  

 

My first guess is the Allwinner A83T.   This appears to be an extremely close fit to the information released so far:

 

* 2GB Maximum RAM

* 1.8MHz, 8 CPU cores

* Raw NAND flash support (for the 16GB of onboard flash)

* Ethernet, Wifi, USB

* HDMI port

* Can run Android/Linux

 

The A83T is available on the "Banana Pi" board which is an obvious take on the "Raspberry Pi". 

Banana Pi:

http://www.banana-pi.org/m3.html

Quickie data sheet with some basic specs and such:

https://github.com/allwinner-zh/documents/blob/master/A83T/A83T_Datasheet_v1.3_20150510.pdf

Info on the included GPU:

https://www.imgtec.com/blog/the-powervr-sgx544mp-a-modern-gpu-for-todays-leading-platforms/

 

 

The second guess is the Qualcomm SDM450.  It isn't as close of a fit but still fairly similar.

 

* Maximum RAM is not specified

* 1.8MHz, 8 CPU cores

* Ethernet, Wifi, USB

* Not sure if it has HDMI

* Can run Android/Linux

 

This one is really designed for cell phones and tablets, so it has things like a cellular radio that the Amico most likely won't use.

Qualcomm's page on it:

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon-450-mobile-platform

 

So I'm leaning towards the A83T, especially since the dev team could just use that Banana Pi dev board as their base and plug everything they require into it.  That'd make development a snap.  The Banana Pi board costs $59.99 on amazon.   Throw on a USB hub for the multiple devices they want to include (multiple USB ports,  RFID), and the board has everything else the Amico requires by the looks of it-  HDMI out, ethernet, wifi and bluetooth.  It also has 8GB of NAND flash (the Amico will have 16GB but this is an easy upgrade when transitioning to final hardware), The 2GB of RAM is already on the board as well.  It's almost a tailor-made Amico board as-is.  There's some general purpose IO and probably I^2C/SPI which would be quite easy to connect to the RGB LEDs on the base unit.  It comes running Android by the looks of it,  and going by the Night Stalker video, they are running the games on Android (you can see the Android buttons pop up at the end on the screen at the bottom).  They could be running it stock just to get development rolling.

 

It will be interesting to look back on this when hardware info is eventually released.

 

 

Nice to have a hardware guy chime in to help us dolts that know nothing about it. The Night Stalker was definitely running on android and I believe they are saying its Android/Linux

[+kevtris]

Just now, MrBeefy said:

Nice to have a hardware guy chime in to help us dolts that know nothing about it. The Night Stalker was definitely running on android and I believe they are saying its Android/Linux

Yeah... Android IS Linux though which is the funny thing 🙂

[MrBeefy]

37 minutes ago, spoonman said:

I've been hearing that the PS4 and Switch just don't have many family oriented games. Not enough couch co-op games, and one outrageous claim that the Nintendo Switch has, and I quote "full genitalia, Child rape and molestation" source in their games! This is either a huge exaggeration or Nintendo is about to be shut down. And again, when I asked which commercial Nintendo games had that content... Nothing. No proof. Because it isn't true. 

 

Some of this annoys me since I used to manage game stores where parents would ask for appropriate games for their children, and there were always tons of great age appropriate titles for them. Suggesting otherwise is just not being truthful. Just because a console also has titles for other age levels (certainly not child porn!) should not hurt the platform as a whole. This is why we have ESRB ratings, and parents who can implement locks so that children are unable to see or purchase anything higher than an E rated title. 

 

And one more thing.. He talks about the Amico not being aimed at the PS5 / Xbox Series X crowd, but then comparisons are made on those consoles compared to the Amico. "Play a game with your buddies on the PS5...it will cost you $800".

 

I think the simplest thing to say about the Switch 'debate' is that it has more mature games on it than the previous two Nintendo consoles and it is only a problem if you are lazy or let your kid buy stuff without you checking it.

 

Amico will allow parents to not need to worry about the game rating since it should all be that way. I think that's good and nothing wrong with that, and I also think there's nothing wrong with the Switch and filtering out the garbage and parenting.

 

WiiU has some great multiplayer and was IMO highly underrated. Good kid/family friendly games too.

 

[MrBeefy]

15 minutes ago, kevtris said:

Yeah... Android IS Linux though which is the funny thing 🙂

Yeah not sure where my brain was on that one. You get to have dessert with your bacon.

 

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, kevtris said:

Yeah... Android IS Linux though which is the funny thing 🙂

Android was a fork of linux, are they now on a common kernel?  There are Linux components that aren't in Android and Android components that aren't on Linux.  If they are using components that are otherwise unique to each than you can say a linux/android hybrid.

 

I remember reading about hardware speculations elsewhere, something about mediatek and qualcomm.  Since their technical requirements are low I imagine it comes down to cost and supply.  Nearly half of your money is going towards the controllers anyway.

 

 

[digdugnate]

46 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I think the simplest thing to say about the Switch 'debate' is that it has more mature games on it than the previous two Nintendo consoles and it is only a problem if you are lazy or let your kid buy stuff without you checking it.

 

Amico will allow parents to not need to worry about the game rating since it should all be that way. I think that's good and nothing wrong with that, and I also think there's nothing wrong with the Switch and filtering out the garbage and parenting.

 

WiiU has some great multiplayer and was IMO highly underrated. Good kid/family friendly games too.

 

this brings up an interesting point.  i think it's cool that it looks like the Amico is 'curating' family-friendly games, but is the appeal so families with younger kids don't have to actively review or research the games?  from casual observation, it looks like the big selling points touted are 1) nostalgia and 2) PG-rated gaming that doesn't require any research or forethought.

 

just my opinion (and you know what the face value of that is), but i feel like the onus is on the parents to research the game/movie/show/whatever based on what they feel is appropriate for their kids and not rely on a company to tell them what's ok. 

[mr_me]

8 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

this brings up an interesting point.  i think it's cool that it looks like the Amico is 'curating' family-friendly games, but is the appeal so families with younger kids don't have to actively review or research the games?  from casual observation, it looks like the big selling points touted are 1) nostalgia and 2) PG-rated gaming that doesn't require any research or forethought.

 

just my opinion (and you know what the face value of that is), but i feel like the onus is on the parents to research the game/movie/show/whatever based on what they feel is appropriate for their kids and not rely on a company to tell them what's ok. 

I think that's correct they are trying to be the "Apple" of videogames, don't think, just buy.  I don't see nostalgia being much of a factor to most of their target market but licensing definitely is.

 

You can think of parents putting the TV on the treehouse or disney channel.  They do it because they know they don't have to worry about the content.  They are trusted.  They want to develop the same kind of trust with Amico.

Edited February 9, 2020 by mr_me

[dj_convoy]

6 hours ago, spoonman said:

Sorry for the late response, I just found this thread.

Man, I am a huge BurgerTime fan! I used to play it all the time in the arcade and then loved playing the ColecoVision port as well. The NES port is excellent as well. I'm always up for more of that.

 

I didn't even know they had brought BT back for current gen (BurgerTime Party) until recently. It looks decent enough, perhaps the graphics look a bit like an Adobe Flash animation, but as games like Castle Crashers have proven, it's more about the game play and co-op. I'll grab the physical copy when the price drops a bit. It supports 4 player local co-op and online as well.

 

 

 

Awesome game. I just picked this up on the Switch,under the "Johnny Turbo " brand.

All of those classic Data East games are on sale now for only $1.99. I also grabbed Heavy Burger. An absolute love letter to fans of Data East arcade cabs and twin stick shooters such as Robotron: 2084! Also has 4 player co-op as well.

 

 

Is R-Type coming to the Amico? Better hope those controllers are latency free and can handle a "beating" and being thrown! haha.. R-Type games are often pretty brutal "old school tough". Hopefully they can add a co-op mode like they did with R-Type Dimensions. That was an awesome port with new 3D perspective views and a new soundtrack, both of which could be toggled on-the-fly. 

I think Heavy Burger has gone under the radar of a lot of folks, which is a shame. Fun, fun game. I wasn't blown away by Burgertime Party, but it might be more fun as what it's meant to be, a local party game.

[roots.genoa]

2 hours ago, spoonman said:

I've been hearing that the PS4 and Switch just don't have many family oriented games. Not enough couch co-op games, and one outrageous claim that the Nintendo Switch has, and I quote "full genitalia, Child rape and molestation" source in their games! This is either a huge exaggeration or Nintendo is about to be shut down. And again, when I asked which commercial Nintendo games had that content... Nothing. No proof. Because it isn't true.

Thank you. That's also what bothered me about the whole TonyTGD trainwreck.

Unfortunately, Tony mentioned it while calling Tommy a liar - well, he said Tommy lied which is quite the same even though he claimed it wasn't - which prevented a constructive debate. Of course, it doesn't change the fact that Amico is a family friendly system while the Switch is not as much as previous Nintendo systems, and I agree a lot of parents could be shocked by a few games on the eShop. That being said, there's indeed a huge difference between allowing explicit sexual content (which is legal) and depictions of rape and/or child molestation (illegal). L.A. Noire was mentioned several times and it saddens me because I love that game - I beat it twice on two different systems. It's inspired by film noir so rapes are clearly mentioned (but never shown) and there's nudity, even though I think the only naked bodies are corpses.

 

But while I think people should watch their children a lot more, we all know it's difficult to prevent children to be curious about mature stuff. As someone said in this thread or the other, adults are often the ones attracted by kiddy stuff because of nostalgia, while kids want to play GTA. I remember kids were a lot more critical of Wind Waker's cel shaded look for instance, and I myself was fascinated by Mortal Kombat (I would always use the code to get blood on the Mega Drive version) when I was 12. I also watched Coppola's Dracula at that age in the theater - yes, French censorship is very lax - and it has became one of my favorite movies. These days I'm playing the Friday the 13th video game on Switch and I guarantee you every player using voice chat sounds like a small kid. But it is actually quite hilarious to escape then to get killed by Jason commenting his actions with the voice of a 12-year-old kid trying to sound badass! ^^

[MrBeefy]

3 hours ago, digdugnate said:

this brings up an interesting point.  i think it's cool that it looks like the Amico is 'curating' family-friendly games, but is the appeal so families with younger kids don't have to actively review or research the games?  from casual observation, it looks like the big selling points touted are 1) nostalgia and 2) PG-rated gaming that doesn't require any research or forethought.

 

just my opinion (and you know what the face value of that is), but i feel like the onus is on the parents to research the game/movie/show/whatever based on what they feel is appropriate for their kids and not rely on a company to tell them what's ok. 

Like said, it goes with their S.A.F.E. and wanting to build that trust. When you see or hear about an Amico game you know that its quality, family friendly, and a great value.

 

I think parents should review games or TV shows even if they are from Amico or Disney TV.

[+Tommy Tallarico]

11 hours ago, spoonman said:

I've been hearing that the PS4 and Switch just don't have many family oriented games. Not enough couch co-op games,

 

 

To be clear, I've never said they don't have family or co-op games.  I've only pointed out the fact that EVERY game on our system has co-op and that most of our co-op games are playable by casuals and non-gamers.  Together.  No matter what your skill level.  This in turn makes the entry level for non-gamers and casuals very inviting.

Please remember that only 6.67% of the entire world plays video games on a home console.  The rest are playing non-couch co-op games on their mobile devices (with the exception of Jackbox).  We want to cater to the 93.3% of the world that is clearly looking for something different than a complex and expensive home console.

Yes... Smash Bros is a great couch co-op game... but is grandma playing it?  No.  Has the Switch reached the same heights as the Wii?  No.  Only about half at this point and is not seen as a non-gamer hyper casual system (although their are some games on the system like that).

It's the "controllers" that make most of the couch co-op games non-starters for non-gamers on the other current machines.  

I have stated many many times that I love PS, XBOX & Nintendo and that I'm not tearing them down in any way.  I mentioned it in every interview I do at this point.  But when people ask "why is Amico different"... then I give them the answer.  And it is different in those regards. 
 

 

Quote

 

and one outrageous claim that the Nintendo Switch has, and I quote "full genitalia, Child rape and molestation" source in their games! This is either a huge exaggeration or Nintendo is about to be shut down. And again, when I asked which commercial Nintendo games had that content... Nothing. No proof. Because it isn't true. 

 

They are allowed to put out Adult content.  Just like film studios are.  If rape or children in sexually suggestive positions is depicted or referred to in a film... the film company isn't breaking the law and is going to get shut down.    I posted MANY pictures of full frontal nudity when asked... but showing such stuff is against the forum rules (which is understandable).  There are MANY articles written on this subject matter.  Just Google it.  Nintendo will even tell you in their own words...

 

 

AO (Adults Only) is a rating... and Switch games have gotten them... and others removed from the U.S. stores but continue to be sold in countries outside the U.S.

This image may be considered against the rules here... and if so... Mods... please remove.

This is from a Switch game...

 

 

<image redacted>

 

Again... I'm not trying to "bash" anyone or anything.  But calling me a liar or that these are "outrageous claims" doesn't seem to line up with the data.

 

 

 

Quote

 

And one more thing.. He talks about the Amico not being aimed at the PS5 / Xbox Series X crowd, but then comparisons are made on those consoles compared to the Amico. "Play a game with your buddies on the PS5...it will cost you $800".

 

I'm not sure I understand the point.  Yes.  For a family of 4 to play a couch co-op game for the PS5 will easily be in the $800 range.

PS5 - $500 + tax = $550
3 extra controls @ $60 each + tax = $200
purchase of game = $60 + tax.

 

Total spent:  Over $800.

 

So I'm not sure why this would be considered a controversial statement at all.  Just pointing out the numbers and the difference between the PS5 and Amico.  With Amico you can play 8 at a time right out of the box for around $250.  Less than 1/3 of the price to do the same on the PS5.  Not everyone in the world can afford $800+ to play casual couch co-op video games.

Of course we're assuming that there will even be couch co-op games on the PS5 or XBOX X on release.  Most publishers have been getting away from those styles of games.  If not for the super talented indie developers out there... couch co-op could be a thing of the past.

 

 

 

[Flojomojo]

Can we PLEASE have a sales-pitch-free zone in this online forum I used to love so much?? 

Without the presence of the Chief Ego Officer having defensive meltdowns every single day?

Is that too much to ask??????

[SegaSnatcher]

9 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Yes... Smash Bros is a great couch co-op game... but is grandma playing it?  No.  Has the Switch reached the same heights as the Wii?  No.  Only about half at this point and is not seen as a non-gamer hyper casual system (although their are some games on the system like that).

From my understanding Switch's software attach rate is much better than Wii's was at the same time on the market. So even if Switch doesn't hit 100 million console sales it could make it up on software sales. 

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/nintendo-switch-software-attach-rate-1203198916/

Edited February 9, 2020 by SegaSnatcher

[+Tommy Tallarico]

2 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Can we PLEASE have a sales-pitch-free zone in this online forum I used to love so much?? 

Without the presence of the Chief Ego Officer having defensive meltdowns every single day?

Is that too much to ask??????

 
Yes... in your world... I'm not allowed to respectfully answer someone's question who says the things I'm saying are untrue.

The reason it bothers you so much?  Because I continue to destroy your narrative and you just can't stand it?

 

Last time I checked... no one is forcing you to come in here.

Defensive meltdown indeed.

 

 

[+Tommy Tallarico]

Just now, SegaSnatcher said:

From my understanding Switch's software attach rate is much better than Wii's was at the same time on the market. So even if Switch doesn't hit 100 million console sales it could make it up on software sales. 

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/nintendo-switch-software-attach-rate-1203198916/

Much cheaper games on the Switch.  Of course the attach rate is going to be higher.  You can literally buy games on the Switch for .49 cents.

 

 

[m-crew]

 

Crazy Forest Party  ... Attract new Trolls by amazing the party crowds to join and inhabit your village!

 

Found another game that could be a great for a future release for the Amico.  Maybe  instead of a forest they can modernize to reflect urban culture .. What would be a good theme to make this game into a urban enviornment. Also I think it would work for co op for sure.  what do you think? 

[jaybird3rd]

13 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Can we PLEASE have a sales-pitch-free zone in this online forum I used to love so much?? 

Without the presence of the Chief Ego Officer having defensive meltdowns every single day?

Is that too much to ask??????

For whatever my opinion is worth—which doesn't seem to be much these days—I don't see Tommy's post as a "sales pitch."  I made it clear in the "rules of conduct" for this thread that offering corrective or clarifying information was within bounds, and as far as I can tell that is what was done.

[+save2600]

21 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Can we PLEASE have a sales-pitch-free zone...

Maybe if more people took the time to pay attention, scour these threads, read the Amico website faq's, etc., Tommy wouldn't have to re-phrase and re-explain his product and concepts over and over and over again. That's not sales pitching, that's *trying* to set the record straight. 
 

If he ignores the noisy negativists, then he's accused of hiding something or worse. Literally a no-win situation here by the few that continually badger. Gotta be incredibly draining for Tommy, and applaud him for even trying to appease everyone on such a micro level.