Independent Amico Discussion Thread

[+Lathe26]

7 hours ago, Spriggy said:

 

Ahh.  Fosters.  The Aussie beer that Aussie's don't drink.  No joke intended.  I buy a six pack every couple of years, just to feel nostalgic for it's popularity in the 70's and early 80's in Oz.  I don't remember the last time seeing ANYONE drink it down here.  But I digress. 

#sorryforthebeerhijack.

 

I had an Aussie co-worker who liked to say "Fosters... Australian for horse ****"

[roots.genoa]

8 hours ago, JasperAK said:

I'm thinking something like Amibros

I just realized some people may confuse Amico with amiibo, even though I'm not sure if amiibos are widely known by the mainsteam audience anyway. But given that some think the coronavirus and the Corona beer are related... I don't know. 😕 That being said, Intellivision wants Amico to be a spiritual successor to the Wii after all, so it may be positive if a part of the mainstream audience thinks it's a new system by Nintendo ! ^^

Edited March 16, 2020 by roots.genoa

[MrBeefy]

8 hours ago, mr_me said:

The price increases now are likely a result of what's happening in China due to the crisis.

 

The karma engine will be implemented by the programmers of each game.  I've heard somewhat conflicting statements.  That in a competitive two player game it will automatically balance a game between strong and weak players so both have an equal chance of winning.  And that it will only kick in if a player is hopelessly behind.  So in many cases it might not kick in at all, and shouldn't affect things like high scores.

 

The response to questions about physical media has always been wait for announcements.  The timing to reveal more seems to be outside his control.  At one time waiting on patents were mentioned.

The price creeps came before all the COVID-19 stuff. Intellivision Entertainment has even mentioned wanting to keep adding cool stuff. Remember we started at $150 to $180. We are now up to $220ish to 280ish. Either IE had initial issues with pricing parts or they kept adding features, or it was a mixture of both.

 

I guess we are going to have to see what the Karma Engine is. While I think it could be a simple as some difficulty toggles, it is probably going to be more rubberbanding. It has to affect scores somehow unless the point of the game is not score but objective.

 

Patents can take years to get through. Ever buy something that says, "patent pending"? I think it can be as short as 6 months but it isn't rare for it to take around 2 to slightly under 3 years.

 

[MrBeefy]

3 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I just realized some people may confuse Amico with amiibo, even though I'm not sure if amiibos are widely known by the mainsteam audience anyway. But given that some think the coronavirus and the Corona beer are related... I don't know. 😕 That being said, Intellivision wants Amico to be a spiritual successor to the Wii after all, so it may be positive if a part of the mainstream audience thinks it's a new system by Nintendo ! ^^

All red Amico consoles go by the name Mario. 

[mr_me]

What they are waiting for is patent filing not patent approval. Once receipt of their patent file has been acknowledged they can proceed (patent pending).  They shouldn't make anything public until patent applications have been filed.  They can release their products to market with patents pending.

 

The previous price increase was when they changed the controller touchscreen technology.  The initial $150 price might have been a little ambitious as well.  It was a target set before engineering even started.  In 1979 Mattel announced the intellivision with a price of $150 when most of their engineering was done.  In 1980 it sold for $300.  The Amico special editions were always going to cost more.  Other than possibly adding an additional pack-in game, no new functional features have been mentioned.  It's things like using better batteries, higher quality plastics, better touchscreens.

Edited March 16, 2020 by mr_me

[roots.genoa]

3 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

All red Amico consoles go by the name Mario. 

I'll wait for the inevitable green model, then.

[+Tommy Tallarico]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

What they are waiting for is patent filing not patent approval. Once receipt of their patent file has been acknowledged they can proceed (patent pending).  They shouldn't make anything public until patent applications have been filed.  They can release their products to market with patents pending.

 

The previous price increase was when they changed the controller touchscreen technology.  The initial $150 price might have been a little ambitious as well.  It was a target set before engineering even started.  In 1979 Mattel announced the intellivision with a price of $150 when most of their engineering was done.  In 1980 it sold for $300.  The Amico special editions were always going to cost more.  Other than possibly adding an additional pack-in game, no new functional features have been mentioned.  It's things like using better batteries, higher quality plastics, better touchscreens.

You're 100% correct!  $150 was before engineering started and before we spoke to retailers, which is why I gave a price range of $149 - 179 (because we were initially hoping to be somewhere in there).

Once we picked our chip and started settling on certain quality parts... it got to $199.  Then we starting speaking to retailers who all told us the same thing.... making it under $200 is going to scare a lot of folks away because they will associate it with being "cheap" or even worse... just a "retro" or "flashback" type of console.  Once we heard that, we started looking into ways we could upgrade some of the parts because we felt we sacrificed a few important things in order to keep it at $199.  The screen, the plastics/colors, batteries were just a few.  Once we saw how much better and more responsive the capacitive touch screens were... we knew we had to keep them.  At that point, was still hoping to be around $229 - $239.  But now, with the Coronavirus and scarcity of parts... it could get to $249 for the initial launch and until the manufacturing/supply chain stuff goes away (estimating Q1 or Q2 of 2021).  Meaning... base units would sell for $249 for the first 6 months or so and then come down by the spring of 2021 if everything stays on track.  If you think about... very typical for any video game system.  Year one it comes out at the biggest price... then by Christmas of the following year the first "sales" or "bundles" start to happen.

During all of this we have started thinking about adding more great games to the system to ensure value.  Right now it's looking like 6 and may even go to 7.  And these are all premium games! 

The Wii was $249 when it came out 14 years ago... which was the equivalent to $317 back then.  So even at $249 we are still one of the least expensive premium video game machines to ever hit the market AND the only system in 30 years (since the Super Nintendo) that has come with 2 separate controllers with the base unit.  And considering how incredible and expensive the technology is for our controllers (higher than any of the other baseccontrollers on the market to my knowledge) it's still and absolute helluva deal.

Of course... before deciding each step we did massive amounts of focus group testing all over the world.  And once families heard all of the options, held it in their hand and were told the price... most of them said they would pay $299 for the experience and that $229 - $249 would feel like an absolute bargin for what they were getting... and the quality.  You really need to see the system in person and hold the controllers in your hand to really experience what I'm talking about. 

So there ya go... the history of the pricing and why/how. 

 

Still haven't figured out what it is yet.  Is going to depend on what happens with components over the next month.  The base units will NOT be over $249... THAT I can 100% promise!  I'm guessing by fall of 2021 the units would come down to somewhere between $199 - $229 depending.  So, for the folks who want to stay under the $200 range... they will be able to jump in a bit later and still really early in the life cycle.  Units are going to be super scarce this year and the beginning of 2021 anyway (whether we like it or not) so the more premium price doesn't seem out of character considering the situation everyone is in.  But if I can keep it in the $229 area... I will for sure.

Another thing to consider... even at $249 we'll STILL be at least HALF the price of the other 2 new consoles (if they even come out this year).  So value proposition is still strong (even though they aren't really our competition... they will be perceived as such by some). 

[Steven Pendleton]

Mass-manufactured things also become cheaper to build as you build more of them. Economy of scale. Someone will probably read your thing and freak out and think you're already planning price reductions (which is a ridiculous thing to freak out over, but someone will do it, most likely), but I can't think of anything that can be mass manufactured that doesn't get cheaper to make as you build more. Maybe musical instruments, and Gibson is using their Plek thing now(still have no idea what exactly that is or what it does, by the way), but even then they usually require some sort of human input, which requires time and money.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Steven Pendleton

[+Mockduck]

Yeah, especially this fall I'd imagine a $250 price point isn't that big of a deal on the consumer level, will still be probably about half the price of the PS5/Xbox One X Series X One Box

 

 

[MrBeefy]

14 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I'll wait for the inevitable green model, then.

For you @roots.genoa. It isn't an actual thing though.

 

 

[MrBeefy]

On 3/15/2020 at 8:55 AM, MrBeefy said:

22 game trailer predictions.

 

1. Armor Battle

2. Astrosmash

3. Auto Racing

4. Bi-Planes

5. Night Stalker

6. Shark! Shark!

7. Skiing

8. Asteroids

9. Breakout

10. Missile Command

11. Moon Patrol

12. Unnamed Dolphin Game (Ecco? Big Blue?)

13. Running man game

14. PONG

15. Cornhole

16. Safecracker

17. Baseball

18. Microsurgeon

19. B17 Bomber

20. Bowling

21. Frog Bog

22. Momtroidvania or Cloudy Mountain

With a 23rd announcement I'm throwing in my wildcard.

 

23. Casino/Poker/Blackjack/Dice Rolling

[+Tommy Tallarico]

11 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

With a 23rd announcement I'm throwing in my wildcard.

 

23. Casino/Poker/Blackjack/Dice Rolling

 

16 correct.  Not bad.

 

 

[MrBeefy]

Knew I should have included Carnival and the animal fighting game.

[mr_me]

Carnival?  You mean the circus game.

[Steven Pendleton]

I hope we will see B-17 Bomber, that Running Man game, and maybe Night Stalker tomorrow. We've already seen a bit of Night Stalker, though, so maybe not.

 

Maybe I will stay up until 0200 to watch it when it is released. I don't have work tomorrow, and even if I did I don't start until 1400 anyway, so I might as well! I just started Shin Megami Tensei late last night and I'm still working on Fire Emblem, so hopefully I won't be too distracted and forget!

[roots.genoa]

5 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

For you @roots.genoa. It isn't an actual thing though.

 

 

I'm not sure anymore... I'm hesitating between this and the "RBMK graphite rod black"™ edition now.

[Hwlngmad]

While I think the amount of technology and the price is not too shabby at $249, we don't necessarily know what Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft might be planning with their existing lines of products, not to mention what else they might have planned.  I know that Microsoft is supposedly working on a 'Series S', which reportedly is going to be around $299.  However, while hearsay at this point, needless to say there will be lots of competition and potential surprises when the Amico comes out.  Still, I wish everyone working on and supporting this the best of luck going forward.

[mr_me]

What would Microsoft take out of the series x to make it $200 cheaper?  Still, regardless of the price, xbox and amico are going after two completely different markets.

[MrBeefy]

They might be going after different markets but I think the Switch can compete more in that market and its buy in price is similar to the Amico.

[mr_me]

Hwlngmad didn't mention the Switch but I agree that Nintendo marketing is closer to what I expect from Amico.

[+Tommy Tallarico]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

They might be going after different markets but I think the Switch can compete more in that market and its buy in price is similar to the Amico.

You could give away a Nintendo Switch to my mom or anyone's Grandma or non-gamer and it still wouldn't get played.

Completely different market.  Yes... they have more "couch co-op" and Indie stuff than PS & XBOX... but it's not on the same level of simple and affordable as we are.

Remember... 55 million Switches have been sold worldwide... but 3 billion people play casuals games every day.  Clearly there is a disconnect between what casuals want and play... and what Nintendo offers with the Switch.

 

Lets say a family of four wants to play a game together.  How many Switches will you need?  At least two?  ($600) plus tax, plus the games... now your at $700+?  And what hyper casual game would you pick for the Switch?  Mario Kart?  Have you played it?  Do you think Grandma or a non-gaming mom can?  It's not the same Mario Kart you knew on the SNES.  And those tiny tiny controllers?  Can we all stop kidding ourselves with those?   Or maybe you just buy one Switch and multiple controllers.  But are the couch co-op games on the Switch really simple and easy to play?  Or are they more like Smash Bros or super fast fighting or shooting games?  And where would grandma or non-gaming mom go to find such games on the Nintendo store?  What keywords would they use? 

Are mom & grandma going to be excited about the ability to take the Switch on the road with them?  (the biggest feature of the Switch).  Will they carry it around everywhere they go?  Do they care about doing that?

There is a reason why the Switch is still considered a hardcore gaming device.... because unlike the Wii.... it is!  Yes... it definitely has more crossover appeal than a PS or XBOX... but they are still not capturing the casual, hardcore retro, seniors or edutainment market that we intend on focusing on.
 

 

Not trying to take anything away from Nintendo... just pointing out that price comparison to a Switch isn't going to matter as the reality is their system isn't set up to appeal to the same folks we're going to be focused on and attracting.  Which by the way... is a MUCH bigger market than the 200 million hardcores that the big 3 (big 4 if you count Goggle) try to constantly fight over for their 25% market share.  I'd prefer to fight for the 55% market share.

 

 

[Hwlngmad]

Yes, I totally understand that the Amico and the others (Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft) are going for and/or toward different audiences.  And, I believe that the Amico definitely brings a more casual, pick and up play (looking) feel to the games it is going toward.  However, while I definitely think and wish the Amico success, others have tried and failed in and around this area before.  Of course, they (like the Ouya and Amazon with its Fire TV 1st and 2nd editions) did things on a lot more open ended, less cultivated, and ambiguous gaming focus, they still took serious shots at the "micro console" type arena that the Amico seems to be more align toward.  But, again, those efforts did have some (big) flaws that the Amico looks to address, and seems to be capable of delivery some really good casual, family fun experiences.  Still, at $225 to $250, I just can't help to wonder if Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft might have products in and around this price range that the Amico might get drowned out a bit.  Just my thoughts.  This all being said, I do sincerely wish Tommy, Intellivision, and the Amico well in order to help moving the gaming dynamic back toward less hard-core and more 'easy to play, difficult to master' gaming like it was once before.

[+Swami]

15 minutes ago, Hwlngmad said:

Yes, I totally understand that the Amico and the others (Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft) are going for and/or toward different audiences.  And, I believe that the Amico definitely brings a more casual, pick and up play (looking) feel to the games it is going toward.  However, while I definitely think and wish the Amico success, others have tried and failed in and around this area before.  Of course, they (like the Ouya and Amazon with its Fire TV 1st and 2nd editions) did things on a lot more open ended, less cultivated, and ambiguous gaming focus, they still took serious shots at the "micro console" type arena that the Amico seems to be more align toward.  But, again, those efforts did have some (big) flaws that the Amico looks to address, and seems to be capable of delivery some really good casual, family fun experiences.  Still, at $225 to $250, I just can't help to wonder if Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft might have products in and around this price range that the Amico might get drowned out a bit.  Just my thoughts.  This all being said, I do sincerely wish Tommy, Intellivision, and the Amico well in order to help moving the gaming dynamic back toward less hard-core and more 'easy to play, difficult to master' gaming like it was once before.

For casuals, Apple TV is possibly more competition than the consoles as they are getting into the motion control and casual games market using your phone as a controller. Some may be lured in by the 100's of games, subscription service and multi-functionality, although the reality is it may not be family friendly and involve a lot of up-selling. Of course, your still limited to only iphones for most gameplay functionality.

[mr_me]

By Apple TV, do you mean Apple Arcade.  I'm not familiar with their games and I know it supports playstation/xbox controllers but wouldn't most games be designed for iphone/ipad, touchscreen/mobile interface and single player play.  It's also a subscription service only and limited to Apple customers.

 

I don't think it's fair to compare ouya to amico.  There's no comparison in the investment in games development.  There's also no comparison when you look at the people behind Amico.  And I barely saw any ouya marketing, not sure who they were targeting.  We have yet to see Amico marketing but their budget sounds to be significantly larger.  That marketing will be key to Amico having success.  There might be some overlap with what nintendo is doing, but there are differences and there's certainly room for two players competing in that space.

Edited March 18, 2020 by mr_me

[MrBeefy]

I get some of the Switch talk but how is that any different than people here buying two FE, or a FE and VIP, or probably two FE and the upcoming VIP?

 

Those who have bought two FE are already at Microsoft and Sony numbers for this upcoming gen or multiple Switches. 😂